MoreLife ‘Weight Management’- waste of NHS Funds?

[JediKnightingale]

About a year ago I rang my GP surgery to ask if I could be assessed for my eligibility for one of the weight loss injections. I was told there was a wait list of over a year but they would add me to the list.

In November last year I got a call from someone at MoreLife saying they had gotten my referral from the GP and wanted to set up an appointment. I assumed this was an initial screening program for the weight loss injection.

Filled out a health questionnaire, asked about the injections and arranged a ‘convenient’ time for my weekly weight management zoom meeting.

The weekly zoom meeting turned out to be a 12 week 1.5 hour ‘course’. On asking about the injections on the first session we were all told ‘No weight loss injections are currently available on the NHS so stop asking about it’

Basically this ‘MoreLife’ lot must be squeezing the NHS for pots of cash taking 20 people per session (at 1.5 hours a time) telling us gems like - eat less, move more, chew longer, lots of red traffic lights on food is bad, eat more veg. But padded out with words like ‘mindfulness’ and ‘portion control’.

Homework tasks like food diaries and calorie counting FFS! We are a group of obese people who have all tried every diet under the sun and are desperate for help - which is why we all signed up for the injections. Being told to eat one less spud and go for a walk by a jolly 22 year old size zero gym bunny is insulting and not helpful.

It infuriates me that the NHS is pissing money on these weight management schemes. They had me on Second Nature a few years ago and that came with digital scales, a Fitbit thing and recipe books - all of which I already had. Weight lost: zero. What a huge waste!

Anyone else agree the NHS needs to speak to obese people and find out what we REALLY NEED? Surely -money spent on a proven medication is a much better use of resources?

I realise that some people my find these weight management things helpful - but our group is 90% weary, perpetually overweight, miserable and are only continuing because MoreLife say if we don’t complete the course IF the injections become available we won’t be approved unless we’ve finished their stupid, infantile course.

Wegovy isn't twice the price of Ozempic, its the same. Its £200- £250 a month on private prescription. Boots and other online pharmacies prescribe it nationally, not by area.

An injection isn’t going to magic away people’s unhealthy relationship with food & exercise. We all know what we need to do. Some choose to do it, others prefer to eat what they want and deny they need to exercise. We all have a choice.

That's your view. For some people they 'eat what they want' but others don't.

Do you really think all overweight people are chowing down day and night? They aren't.

I put on over 3 stone whilst going to the gym 5 times a week and eating healthily. My metabolism changed. I can only eat 1200 calories a day now just to maintain. Which is not a lot.

Hi OP - I recently asked my GP how to go about getting injectables (I am not in the UK) and she told me there was no chance for at least 12 months due to the lack of supply. I literally started crying in the office because I too am tired of being told to count calories and move more.

However - she did give me some good advice and that was to try something I hadn’t tried before - eg low carb/ intermittent fasting/higher protein and give each try a decent go for at least 4 weeks understanding that I may slip each time for a couple of days here and there. She actually acknowledged that she didn’t want me to see a dietician under 30 as she felt they don’t always understand the health issues that go with peri and post menopause. So she gave me a referral to a dietician who specialises in menopausal women. I understand she supports low/moderate carbs and high protein however I haven’t yet been able to make an appointment.

However in the meantime I have been trying 2 meal replacement shakes a day (Optifast) with a healthy meal at night. 2 weeks in and I feel like I am in a rhythm and I am making slow progress. Will it last? I don’t know but I guess the point of my message is that we just have to keep trying to find something that works for us - and trying different approaches if whatever we are doing doesn’t work.

I Wish you all the best.

Is there a way of measuring metabolism? Not the calculations available online but if someone went to a specialist doctor and had certain tests that showed their personal metabolic rate? Does that test exist? It would be fascinating to see the results from research around this.

Generally the heavier you are the more calories you need just to exist because your body needs more energy just to carry out its basic functions. I know as I've lost weight that my starting calorie allowance has decreased on my fitness pal and tdee calculations change depending on what I weigh. So the heavier I am the higher my tdee. So if I weigh 65kg my tdee is 1944 calories doing moderate exercise but if I weigh 55kg my tdee is 1789 calories for the same exercise. If I drop my exercise to sedentary it's 1505 calories at 65kg and 1385 calories for 55kg. Exercise makes a big difference to what your body needs. I only walk but I walk 50 miles a week on average and that's brisk walking apart from around the house according to my Fitbit. If I drop my walking I gain weight. Walking keeps me in chocolate 😁

Calorimetry. Should have googled, sorry. Not something anyone has easy or indeed any access to but it would be a good tool to use in the treatment of obesity so that those with a slow metabolism can be identified and treatment tailored accordingly. It should be part of the assessment process for sure.

@soupfiend I am prepared to be proven wrong by anyone - but I work in healthcare and it is not the norm for most people with alcohol issues to be medicated unless they are detoxing from a severe addiction or relapsing frequently and struggling very badly. It’s really not a first line treatment it is treatment that is going to work best for someone who it is not physically safe to detox gradually as they are so dependent, or someone who has had issues with relapse. Alcohol addiction is very varied, not everyone is drinking alcohol to excess it could just be too frequently or that it is exacerbating other health issues, it’s not usually the case people who seek help are put onto medication immediately by the NHS I am not sure where you have got that info from?

The same is for many drugs, people are provided with a gradual programme to cut down - with support over a period of time or they may be medicated for other untreated mental health issues resulting or the cause of why they are struggling with substances. Heroin abuse is not the most abused drug in the U.K., but it is one of the most risky and addictive drugs. Most commonly people who have drug addictions are using cocaine, anabolic steroids, cannabis, prescribed painkillers and opiates (or black market ones) and usually people are not given more drugs, they are gradually tapered down and part of abstinence programmes, therapy and education.

I have to agree with you

I was medically detoxed in 1999, as an out patient, I had to attend the clinic, get my drugs, take them, go home, and do the same the following day. They are dolled out on an as need basis, not given a script and away you go, they are controlled drugs

I think soupfiend is probably thinking of Antabuse and again thats rarely prescribed as it can cause a whole host of other problems, and the most determined drinker will suffer those side effects to get their fix - George Best was well known for it

There are other drugs out now but they are rarely prescribed and are for short term use only, just to get you through the initial cravings long enough to change your habit and mindset around alcohol , mostly you get counselling and AA - peer support

Ive had a number of clients, both alcohol users and heroin who have had medical interventions

Not always successfully, but the methodone treatment is fairly standard. Ive had a number of alcoholics access the medication (couldnt remember its name), some successfully, some not but it has not been unusual for this to be prescribed

None of the clients Ive had, had any specific rehab either (as in gone somewhere for it). Sometimes we have helped them move away from their primary location as a support mechanism but there just is any specific rehab round here.

Look I can just agree to disagree here my point is that most people will fall into the category of needing to help themselves, not just rely on a medication to solve all their problems, most people will be expected to try without medication. The same is for food Addiction and substance misuse, the end user has to want to change and do the work to change. We are all autonomous humans - unless we are suffering from a lack of mental capacity - and we control our lives. We might need some help when things are really hard for us, but it’s down to us to do the work no one can do it for us. So many people here are giving advice on what they did to change. This is not meant to be insulting that there is something wrong with you or that you are faulty and broken but to admit you are struggling and need help is the first step. Getting defensive is the denial talking, before people are ready to change they will defend their choices because it is scary to face up to the reality and do the work. I completely get that!

I dont think there is a massive disagreement here (although it wouldnt matter if there was, this is just a chat on a forum)

But you seem to be using the term medication/medical as if it means its completely outside of the person.

But medication of any type is a tool, thats all. In the same way a slimming club is a tool, or using MFP is a tool.

It might work, it might not. Tools just mean the person is supported to get to their goal and what works for one, might not work for another

For OP, theres things she has said which mean it might not be the right tool for her, but she's right to want to explore it. other tools may not have worked.

With this tool, as with any weight loss support, whether its clubs, going to the gym, tracking calories, surgery, you still have to eat less cals, thats all it boils down to, how you do that, what support you get to do that is different for everyone. You dont just take medication and the weight falls off, you actually have to eat less in order to do so.

Maintaining that, well thats a whole different story. Im not at that stage yet myself, so we'll see when the time comes how Im doing, still got a couple of stone to go. I may well take up meds again myself if they're available, although when I used them before, I just didnt keep it up, I cannot inject myself really.

@soupfiend I think that is because a post like this OP and some of the comments on it are using denial and external blame to justify why they can’t do something and that it is the fault of society or the medical profession for not helping them ergo not their fault. And when others point out your own personal responsibilities and choices we get shot down that we don’t possibly understand, hate fat people, are shaming them and have no idea what we are talking about and there are special exceptions etc etc.

wanting other tools is fine but I was worried about how much of her post was absolving herself of absolutely all responsibility and being so angry at the group setting and not willing to do the work or listen or see any value in what is being taught.

OP is saying that the NHS is wasting money by sending patients like her on the MoreLife course.
She isn't saying that the course isn't useful for everyone.
For her, there is no depth to the very basic information given by MoreLife group leaders, who it seems aren't trained health professionals. So when you scratch the surface they can offer very little more to support weight loss journey.
This in itself can be demoralising at a time when you are motivated in confronting your obesity.
MoreLife may be useful for people who are new to healthy eating or who want to connect with other people with similar difficulties.
But for others, looking for another approach (whether you agree or not) this may well be just a token service that is completely useless and therefore in this instance a waste of money for the NHS.
For people wanting to lose weight it's not just about eat less, move more. Everyone knows that & if it was that simple very few people would be overweight. Should the NHS be looking into other therapies such as motivational interviewing, mindfulness as well as physical investigations etc
For people who have tried 'every diet known to man' with success & later failure, they perhaps would do better on a programme of medication with perhaps a few sessions of CBT. Whether this is short term, long term who knows, after all it's a new treatment.
As you've probably gathered I'm not a healthcare professional but I think obesity is a mental health problem that isn't taken as seriously as other eating disorders such as anorexia but the long term consequences can be as bad.
It is a condition that is neglected and patients are still being offered first line solutions like slimming clubs that they have already tried but they have been of little use. Again, that's not to say they don't work, they do, but just not for everyone.
I can't think of any other group of 'at risk' patients who would be referred to this entry level kind of care.
So, I think the OP is right, MoreLife courses are a waste of NHS money for SOME patients. And obesity should be considered an eating disorder in SOME patients and treated appropriately.

I can't think of any other group of 'at risk' patients who would be referred to this entry level kind of care.

Smokers. If you think smokers get a really good deal on NHS treatment... they don't. Drinkers too. Not a great treatment regime on offer. Most Anorexics struggle to get better, actually. Treating a behavioural disease is mostly a lot of trying things that don't work most of the time.

Actually when you have tried every diet know to man you do need education on healthy eating basic healthy eating. Having been through a similar basic course with fellow obese people it's clear that lots of us have become so confused by all the diets that we struggle to understand what a healthy diet looks like.

Even with complex reasons for obesity the only way to lose weight is to consume less. With obesity we many if us will need to consume significantly less than other people our size. Ozempic, surgery etc work because overall we reduce our intake but they are tools and we need the basic building blocks to be really solid.
For example I have had a week of eating too many calories I have felt hungry but also felt emotional hungry. For me I know I need to increase early protein, slow my eating so I can fit more in at each meal rather than getting too full to quick, I need to drink more fluids which isn't coffee and I need to catch up with friends to lift my mood. These things I learned as I have worked with the tools being offered rather than staying I don't need this or that.

Ok, well Im not really reading into her posts what you are for some reason and vice versa.

Everyone's issues are different and people do know themselves best and you cant project why you're overweight onto other people.

People are entitled to external support for weight loss in the same way people are for stopping smoking, substances, gambling, all sorts of issues, we're very far behind in the UK in that respect, but thats a longer discussion

Hope things go ok for the OP

I have just been accepted on this and asked the GP the same thing but if you are saying that they don't even give you the option them I'm just gonna off it and pay private for the infections. Thank you for helping me as I was very unsure on this course but you have helped me

I suspect Jedi (your comments completely resonate with me) that when you thought you ate next to nothing you probably ate very little of high cal foods - and mainly carbs when your Mum died. So in fact you probably consumed 200 calories but it did not seem very much. One large sausage roll and two donuts with jam, cup of tea with sugars, and a bar of chocolate would do that. Not nutritious, satisfying or anything - and would keep you are the same weight.

I missed a 0 off. Should have read '2000 calories' not 200.

Odd that on Companies House, this company has changed names numerous times and employment history high turnover.

She wants to be screened not patronised

Has anyone actually finished the sessions? any feedback? why such a high turnover of employees on Companies House?

I completely agree with you, these courses are a regurgitation of all the diet clubs and programmes that so many of us have put ourselves through time and time again with the hope that this time it will work. It is a waste of money, because there is nothing new to say. I have done Second Nature, WW, SW, calorie counting etc. The only thing that has worked is weight loss injections.

@JediKnightingale I hope you get the injections in the end, they really are a game changer.

Just got off the phone with a consultant at MoreLife. I was assessed after 5 months of being on the programme to be told I do not fit the criteria, the criteria is really high. They should tell people this at the outset rather than wasting NHS money and our time. This company seems a sham! I have tried so hard to do background checks with no avail. I have suffered my whole adult life being overweight and trying all diets and lifestyles with no luck. At the outset we were told, complete the course and you will be put on the list for the injections, after 9 weeks of listening to a woman on teams meetings reading off
a script that we were given at the outset and pushing to speak to someone higher up
do you get to the bottom of it that you have no chance. Tell me that 9 weeks ago,
not a year down the line so mentally draining and cruel. shame on this company and the fat cats lining their pockets on our problems.

It’s been awhile since I started this thread but interesting to see how many of us feel let down by these ‘weight management’ scams.

@SmartiesOrca Your experience was identical to mine. They basically put us in zoom chatrooms to speak to other ‘fatties’ (using this term as that’s how I felt we were made to feel) and the leader read stupid ‘discussion points’ off a list. Then after enduring this hell for 2 hours a week for 9 weeks we were all told we couldn’t get the jab. I bet MoreLife got paid though.

I actually have now been accepted for the jab due to a consultant for a completely separate health issue recommending it for me. I’ve been told Second Nature will be dealing with it and will be in touch in a month. No doubt there will be more hoops to jump through but it seems I might be getting it soon.

The money the NHS wasted on MoreLife could have been used so much more efficiently elsewhere. They are very shady and I’d love to see some evidence of their cost effectiveness.