Where am I going wrong?

[HayMaker]

So this is what I’ve eaten today. How come I was ravenous and ended up eating 4 biscuits and a packet of crisps this evening?! I’m being healthy I thought, but I don’t get why I’m still stuffing my face with shit.

Breakfast:
Green smoothie with various veg, a banana, nuts, seeds and hemp protein
Cottage cheese on Oatcakes

Lunch:
Roasted tomatoes on two slices of sourdough toast with olive oil and salad leaves
Satsuma and small handful grapes

Snack:
2 seeded ryvita a with hummus

Dinner:
Orzo with loads of veg, bacon and feta

where am I going wrong?

There is nothing wrong with being hungry. It won't hurt you and in fact is a very normal thing to feel for a time before a meal. Feeling hungry for a couple of hours will make your next meal more satisfying.

It feels bad currently because you are used to either never getting hungry in the first place or by eating straight away. Your hormone response (ghrelin and leptin) are therefore not acting as they usually would and it feels more urgent. Accept it as an inevitable mild unpleasantness of dieting and push through. After a week or two it will be much easier to manage.

Sorry to say it but dieting I do sometimes get a bit hungry. I think we get used to never feeling hunger. I have a drink and try and distract myself wait a bit if I can. I find it eases off as body adjusts.
Tracking calories might help your accountability re the reaching for the biscuits.

Are you sure you’re hungry when you eat? Not thirsty? Not just wanting the treats? Because I’m not sure you would be “starving” after those meals.

id be careful here, I am not sure I agree with the others it’s your food choices. I think it’s thirst, habit and you want them,

Agree with the advice above.

I’ve lost just over a stone in the past month by tracking calories, exercising and eating a high protein / low carb diet. Lots of fish, chicken, salads, green vegetables, eggs and protein yoghurts. It’s delicious - especially at this time of year. Feta and watermelon salad is incredible!

I plan ahead, know in the morning what I’m going to eat and when (weekly planning & shopping), don’t have any crap in the house and - hugely important - by accepting hunger before meals. You know you’re going to eat again in an hour or so, so accept the hunger. Drink water and enjoy your next meal.

My dear mum used to say 'imagine the hunger feeling is your stomach shrinking' this saying has always stuck with me x

No, I felt sick. When I get hungry I feel sick so I eat and then I don’t feel sick.

I’m not going to ‘push on through till lunch’ that is diet culture crap and is dangerous thinking. I had an eating disorder when I was a teenager and I’m not doing this sort of shit. What I need to do is make adjustments to get it right, not be miserable.

Again, diet culture crap and I’m not taking any notice of this rhetoric.

There are different stages of hunger. It’s about recognising them and working with your body, not forcing yourself to be uncomfortable.

I know the different stages of hunger and accept that I can get hungry, but I’m not going to let myself feel unwell because the food didn’t satisfy me. What I want to do is get the situation right, get the foods and portions right and go about my day normally, that’s why I am asking for advice here, to get it right. Not to be feeling unwell with hunger and then end up binging.

Also I am not ‘dieting’. Again, this is dangerous. I am trying to change my habits and how I deal with food. That’s what’s important, not being on a ‘diet’.

The thing is, no-one can answer why your hungry when you are, only give idea's as to why they think. And then try and give tips and advice on things.

I get you, I suffered with an eating disorder for many many years, and it's only the last 10 that I have got 'well'. This took many years, psychotherapy and medication for me to get a grip on.

And yes a better way of thinking about things are not by calling eating as a diet but as a way of life and healthy eating patterns.

But people aren't in your head to know what the best phrases to use are

Good luck.

... but you've posted in Weight Loss Chat

Yes because there didn’t seem to be a better option. I want to sort my food choices out and lose some weight but not by doing the wrong thing. It’s triggering. I want to do it right and I thought I’d get some insights into the right foods here.

Thank you, I appreciate this. I just find words like ‘diet’ and saying stuff like power on through your hunger triggering - I should have mentioned my previous issues clearly, but I think some of the things being said are awful anyway, like hunger is your stomach getting smaller - that’s dangerous whether you’ve had an ED or not.

Yes it isn't overlly helpful, it is just a phrase that sometimes keeps me going when I'm waiting until meal time. Which is why I said all we can do is offer tips and advice we know.

I do wish you the best of luck, and sometimes other things have to change before dealing with others

I would add more protein to each meal - eggs, chickpeas, kidney beans, cheese.

I'm a size 8 and eat lots of avocados, they're a great source of healthy fats that your body needs.

There's no need to be rude. If you've convinced yourself you need to eat every 2 hours then you won't lose weight unless you stay ina calorie deficit.

Tbh you owe the people trying to help you in a section called WEIGHT LOSS chat an apology. Maybe sort your head out before trying to lose weight?

OK eat more protein and don't eat crisps and biscuits.

I think @BIWI has explained the issue really well, including that "you need fewer carbs, more protein and more fat in your diet". I would add that each meal should include protein, and snacking should be minimised as it leads to spikes in blood glucose.

I believe that our addiction to sugar leads to a lot of disordered eating and 'biscuit binges'. If you can eliminate almost all sugar, everything else gets soooo much easier! For me personally, The Sugar Solution by Dr Mark Hyman has been a revelation as it not only explains the science in an easy to understand way, but also offers practical advice on how to combat our cravings for carb-rich sugary foods. (You can find it free on Internet Archive.)

Also check out Becky Gillaspy on YouTube. She has a lot of short but insightful videos, e.g.:

@HayMaker

I want to do it right and I thought I’d get some insights into the right foods here

And you've been given lots of good insights and a lot of help. But you're being really quite rude to people who have only been trying to help you. You should have mentioned your ED/food anxieties in your OP (and/or posted somewhere else, like general health) if you didn't want people to assume you were asking about 'a diet' as opposed to your diet in general.

If you don’t want to think of it in terms of a “diet”, just try to think of it in terms of healthy eating.

What we think of as hunger can be other things - boredom, thirst, tiredness, a craving or just a habit. I don’t think the poster who talked about “pushing through to lunch” was talking about starving yourself, but rather asking yourself if you really need to eat right now? Could you wait a bit longer? Is there something healthy you could have if you can’t wait? Could you maybe bring lunch forward a bit? Could you have some water or a cup of tea?

As for where you’re going wrong- what are your portion sizes like? In general, protein and fibre fill you up more, so if you concentrate on foods providing those elements, you should minimise hunger.

There’s loads of evidence out there to show that there’s no particular benefit in low-carbing, despite what most Mumsnet tees seem to think. If it works for you, fine - but there are lots of other strategies. Low fat, counting calories, time restricted eating, intermittent fasting… they all rely on reducing either a type of food, or the eating window. In other words, there has to be some sort of restriction. Perhaps it is a case of working out what kind of “restriction” you could maintain in the long term?

By the way, the Carbohydrate Insulin Hypothesis is just that - a hypothesis which has yet to be proven. Evidence suggests it does not stand up to scrutiny - google the DIETFITS study at Stanford. Also note that the new generation of weight loss drugs such as Ozenpic RAISE insulin levels whilst leading to decreased appetite.

Try looking at what actual nutrition scientists say before reading books written by quacks.

I mean people like Kevin Hall, Christopher Gardner, Gil Carvalho - people who have actually carried out randomised controlled trials and metabolic ward studies.

The carbohydrate insulin model has been tested - and there is no evidence to support it.

On the other hand, there is loads of evidence to show that saturated fat intake is linked to increased all-cause mortality compared to mono-unsaturated and poly-unsaturated fat. Which is why I’m disturbed to see people promoting this way of eating.

To be clear, I’m not suggesting eating loads of refined carbohydrates, including sugary food. Most foods high in refined carbohydrates are low in overall nutritional value (vitamins, minerals, fibre, etc) and also high in fat. So high in calories, often not all that filling (generally low protein, low fibre).

What I am suggesting is to stick primarily to unprocessed foods and to follow general healthy eating guidelines - lots of whole grains, fruits, vegetables; moderate protein in the form of legumes, beans, lean meats, fish and small amounts of fat and minimal sugar.

These are not just the UK healthy-eating guidelines, they are pretty much universal in that they are more or less the same in every country on the planet, as far as I can see.

So, either every government and 99.9% of nutrition scientists are part of a big conspiracy and/or have been duped whilst a handful of self-professed “experts” have seen the truth.

Or these guidelines are the best we have to go on given current evidence.

The carbohydrate insulin model has been tested - and there is no evidence to support it

Have you a source for this claim that I can read, please, @coronabeer?

Actually, maybe there is a need for a healthy eating board where people could discuss that without focusing on weight loss? Some people just want to maintain, some people don't want to get obsessed etc. and I'm sure other reasons would apply. 🤔

I started a weight loss thread (that failed) focusing on waist measurement as an indicator of health myself because I know I can get obsessed with the number on the scales.

No, I felt sick. When I get hungry I feel sick so I eat and then I don’t feel sick

have you spoken to a doctor op and asked for tests? There maybe something medical going on. It’s very unusual to eat as much as you do and feel starving and ravenous. Using your words, and so hungry you feel nauseous, and in such short periods of time since you last ate/

There maybe something going on physically with you?

To be clear, I’m not suggesting eating loads of refined carbohydrates, including sugary food. Most foods high in refined carbohydrates are low in overall nutritional value (vitamins, minerals, fibre, etc) and also high in fat. So high in calories, often not all that filling (generally low protein, low fibre).

This is pretty much what Dr Mark Hyman - and many others - advocates.

At the end of the day it's practical results that matter. I certainly feel (and look, though this is ultimately secondary) infinitely better since I cut out sugar and UPF, and only eat 2 meals consisting of protein, vegetables and small amounts of unrefined carbs and healthy fats a day. Because these meals are packed with nutrients I simply do not feel hungry. I've lowered my BMI and my HgA1c, and my skin is looking much better as well.

And I'm fitter than I was 20 years ago, thanks to working out with weights.