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Weight loss chat

A space to talk openly about weight loss journeys and challenges. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Ultra-Processed People

256 replies

Fairislefandango · 04/06/2023 12:39

Anyone read this? I'm currently listening to it as an audiobook and it's really enlightening, if depressing! After spending years on and off various diets and ending up back where I started, I'm thinking that cutting out UPF is the only sane thing left to try.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Twiglets1 · 05/06/2023 21:56

I feel I’ve learnt a few things from this thread and will be looking out for the recommended bread for example in Waitrose. I think some people probably take it a bit too far as I think moderation is key in most things. However, it’s definitely a good thing to be more conscious about UPF & I think as a result of this thread I will cut down on certain unhealthy foods, like things loaded with artificial sweeteners & preservatives.

Twiglets1 · 05/06/2023 21:57

Won’t be giving up the Twiglets though.

Bubbles254 · 05/06/2023 22:04

Felicia00 · 05/06/2023 19:07

It's not a systematic review or huge meta analysis which combines the results of multiple studies. You can't form an accurate scientific opinion with just one controlled trial. That forms one aspect of research.
Many East Asian seasonings are UPF MSG is UPF but they have some of the lowest rates of obesity in the world.

Meta analysis here
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13679-021-00460-y
It concludes In sum, current research suggests that consumption of UPFs may lead to excessive calorie intake, weight gain, and abnormal blood lipids in the short term and progress into long-term health consequences in adulthood. Given that lifelong dietary patterns develop from childhood and continue into adulthood 84, 85], efforts should be taken to reduce children’s exposure and consumption of energy dense and nutritionally poorer ultra-processed foods.

Key mechanisms are:
UPFs induce high glycemic responses, but have low satiety potential 86

Specific features from food processing, such as the inclusion of additives and alteration of the food matrix makes the foods have a softer texture for less chewing and amplifies sensory properties, which delays satiety signaling, and thereby results in an overconsumption of foods 58]. The higher sugar, fat, and salt content in UPFs makes them more hyperpalatable, which in turn could result in a healthy, nutrient-dense diet being displaced with empty calories and a lower-quality diet that results in weight gain 88

UPFs also have been reported to contribute to a gut environment that selects microbes that are associated with inflammatory disease 89]. The modification of the food matrix often changes the fiber and fat content of the foods, which influences the microbiota composition and bacteria–host interactions 88]. Minimally processed or natural foods have intact fibrous cell walls that provide a substrate for fiber-degrading bacteria in the colon and ensure a slow release of nutrients along the digestive tract 90]. However, the nutrients in UPFs are largely acellular, which instead results in an environment that promotes inflammatory gut microbiota that are associated with various cardiometabolic conditions

Another mechanism by which UPF consumption might impact biology or metabolism could involve the endocrine-disrupting chemicals, such as bisphenol A (BPA), often found in the elaborate packaging materials used for UPF products 88]. While the complete mechanisms of BPA remain unknown, there is some evidence that BPA promotes insulin resistance, oxidative stress, inflammation, and adipogenesis, which in turn increases our risk for major CVD conditions, including diabetes, overall and abdominal obesity, and hypertension

Ultra-processed Foods, Weight Gain, and Co-morbidity Risk - Current Obesity Reports

Purpose of Review The purpose of this review is to provide an update on the available data regarding the associations of Ultra-processed food (UPF) consumption with food intake and possible underlying mechanisms relating UPF consumption to weight gain...

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13679-021-00460-y

MedSchoolRat · 05/06/2023 23:19

That's not a meta-analysis. It's an editorial.

stingypeasant · 05/06/2023 23:32

kitsuneghost · 04/06/2023 14:31

I just think it's the new sugar. (Before that it was fat). Always something that if we cut out we will all be happy slim and healthy. Load of rubbish.

You think not eating fake food is a fad?

Bubbles254 · 06/06/2023 05:27

MedSchoolRat · 05/06/2023 23:19

That's not a meta-analysis. It's an editorial.

Sorry link didn't work, here you go
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33167080/

Meta-analysis demonstrated consumption of ultraprocessed food was associated with increased risk of overweight (odds ratio: 1.36; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.23-1.51; P < 0.001), obesity (odds ratio: 1.51; 95% CI, 1.34-1.70; P < 0.001), abdominal obesity (odds ratio: 1.49; 95% CI, 1.34-1.66; P < 0.0001), all-cause mortality (hazard ratio: 1.28; 95% CI, 1.11-1.48; P = 0.001), metabolic syndrome (odds ratio: 1.81; 95% CI, 1.12-2.93; P = 0.015) and depression in adults (hazard ratio: 1.22; 95% CI, 1.16-1.28, P < 0.001) as well as wheezing (odds ratio: 1.40; 95% CI, 1.27-1.55; P < 0.001) but not asthma in adolescents (odds ratio: 1.20; 95% CI, 0.99-1.46; P = 0.065). In addition, consumption of ultraprocessed food was associated with cardiometabolic diseases, frailty, irritable bowel syndrome, functional dyspepsia and cancer (breast and overall) in adults while also being associated with metabolic syndrome in adolescents and dyslipidaemia in children. Although links between ultraprocessed food consumption and some intermediate risk factors in adults were also highlighted, further studies are required to more clearly define associations in children and adolescents

Ultraprocessed food and chronic noncommunicable diseases: A systematic review and meta-analysis of 43 observational studies - PubMed

This systematic review and meta-analysis investigated the association between consumption of ultraprocessed food and noncommunicable disease risk, morbidity and mortality. Forty-three observational studies were included (N = 891,723): 21 cross-sectiona...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33167080

Bubbles254 · 06/06/2023 05:35

Zoe predict study findings

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/proceedings-of-the-nutrition-society/article/association-between-ultraprocessed-food-consumption-and-obesity-in-the-zoe-predict-1-cohort-in-the-united-kingdom/8EAB5BB12900200C882B10E0CB91E083
A secondary cross-sectional analysis of dietary and anthropometric data from a total of 987 UK-based adults aged 18–65 from the ZOE PREDICT 1 trial (2018–2019)
A 10% increase in energy intake from UPF was associated with an increase of 0.8 kg/m2 (95% CI: 0.5,1.0) in BMI and 1.9 cm (95% CI: 1.4,2.5) in WC after adjustment for age, sex, ethnicity, total energy intake, and smoking status. In the multivariate analyses adjusted for the same variables, those in the highest quintile of UPF consumption had significantly higher odds of being overweight (OR = 3.30; 95% CI: 2.11,5.15), obese (OR = 2.79; 95% CI: 1.57,4.94), and abdominally obese (OR = 4.39; 95% CI: 2.76,6.97) compared to those in the lowest quintile.

The association between ultra-processed food consumption and obesity in the ZOE PREDICT 1 cohort in the United Kingdom | Proceedings of the Nutrition Society | Cambridge Core

The association between ultra-processed food consumption and obesity in the ZOE PREDICT 1 cohort in the United Kingdom - Volume 81 Issue OCE1

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/proceedings-of-the-nutrition-society/article/association-between-ultraprocessed-food-consumption-and-obesity-in-the-zoe-predict-1-cohort-in-the-united-kingdom/8EAB5BB12900200C882B10E0CB91E083

Goldencup · 06/06/2023 06:56

kitsuneghost · 04/06/2023 14:31

I just think it's the new sugar. (Before that it was fat). Always something that if we cut out we will all be happy slim and healthy. Load of rubbish.

Yes UPF is a quite literally a load of rubbish

Speedweed · 06/06/2023 07:09

LexterDay · 05/06/2023 18:42

A slightly tangential point -

My mother and her two sisters brought up in poverty in rural Ireland. Zero convenience food. Just what was available from the farm. All the sisters slim (no effort), attractive and reasonably healthy till old age. There were issues - it wasn’t perfect believe me - but a forum post is not the place to go into stuff in detail in some ways.

However I look at young people, and older people for that matter, pumped with convenience food, and … it’s not a good look. I think they know it on some level maybe, but don’t know what to do about it 😔.

I agree - there is definitely 'a look' to it. Going round different supermarkets, there is a customer body type to each of them. And I don't believe that it's just because the customers of one vs another are lazy/sedentary/greedy/ have no willpower.

One thing that has struck me since I started looking at ingredients lists for UPFs is how they are almost impossible to avoid. Even things you think would be single ingredient are dusted with starch or have added oil. It's really brought home to me how widespread they are, and how many we must be consuming.

Bartg · 06/06/2023 08:30

agree speedweed , that’s why they say to continue to eat your normal upf while reading the book and checking all the packets as you do. It is so hard to avoid them !

Watchkeys · 06/06/2023 08:40

@Bubbles254

Do you understand the difference between association and causation? I'd like UPF's to be denounced as poison, but the study you've posted is proving association. It doesn't say that UPF's cause anything. It's not proof or evidence of anything, just like being poor doesn't cause obesity. There's a link, but poverty doesn't per se cause the problem.

The study actually states that more studies need to be done.

In my opinion, it's likely that UPFs will end up being the next transfats. Ubiquitous, then shunned, rightly. But the 'current science' has only got as far as association, and we can't yet say with confidence that UPF's cause any problems, any more than we can confidently claim that, for example, computer games cause weight gain.

colachive · 06/06/2023 10:07

ultimately this is just about evidencing and formalising what we all already know. Eat fruit and vegetables, cook from scratch.

It’s simply adding more context: When we say “avoid additives” we mean, things like reconstituted waste chemicals from the animal feed industry, which are literally only there to bulk out your protein bar and allow companies to charge more for less.

Its not about having a debate about the well documented, well researched effects of this stuff from people who can’t be arsed to read anything about it 🙄

I’d love a thread where we can swap tips and recipes! I’ve found a good set of products that are UPF-free for things like stock, passata etc. Currently on the hunt for some coconut milk!

Bubbles254 · 06/06/2023 10:19

@Watchkeys Where in my post did I say this research showed causation? The problem is that large scale RCT are hugely expensive plus recruiting people to be part of such as study is very difficult. A lot of the most expensive research is funded by the food manufacturers and they are obviously not keen to fund research which shows that their products are harmful.

I did post earlier a smaller RCT which did show causation but it was criticised for being too small.

There is increasing research of the various components of UPF and the mechanisms for harm although much of it has been done on mice so it is not yet known if the affects humans in the same way. For example there are lots of studies showing the causative impacts of emulsifiers on gut microbes in mice and how that causes metabolic syndrome, diabetes, heart disease, stroke and even Alzheimer's which is now becoming known as type 3 diabetes. I have read the available research and based on that have changed my diet completely.

As a result I feel much healthier, have much more energy and have lost lots of weight without really trying.

Twiglets1 · 06/06/2023 10:36

colachive · 06/06/2023 10:07

ultimately this is just about evidencing and formalising what we all already know. Eat fruit and vegetables, cook from scratch.

It’s simply adding more context: When we say “avoid additives” we mean, things like reconstituted waste chemicals from the animal feed industry, which are literally only there to bulk out your protein bar and allow companies to charge more for less.

Its not about having a debate about the well documented, well researched effects of this stuff from people who can’t be arsed to read anything about it 🙄

I’d love a thread where we can swap tips and recipes! I’ve found a good set of products that are UPF-free for things like stock, passata etc. Currently on the hunt for some coconut milk!

Start a thread then 🤷🏼‍♀️

Felicia00 · 06/06/2023 10:48

Bubbles254 · 06/06/2023 10:19

@Watchkeys Where in my post did I say this research showed causation? The problem is that large scale RCT are hugely expensive plus recruiting people to be part of such as study is very difficult. A lot of the most expensive research is funded by the food manufacturers and they are obviously not keen to fund research which shows that their products are harmful.

I did post earlier a smaller RCT which did show causation but it was criticised for being too small.

There is increasing research of the various components of UPF and the mechanisms for harm although much of it has been done on mice so it is not yet known if the affects humans in the same way. For example there are lots of studies showing the causative impacts of emulsifiers on gut microbes in mice and how that causes metabolic syndrome, diabetes, heart disease, stroke and even Alzheimer's which is now becoming known as type 3 diabetes. I have read the available research and based on that have changed my diet completely.

As a result I feel much healthier, have much more energy and have lost lots of weight without really trying.

The thing is it's hard to trust what evidence is what, fat was considered bad now its not. I'm very slim I eat UPFs as do many people. I eat small protein rich portions and exercise, being fat is the product of having easy access to calorie laden foods and eating too much.

Peridot1 · 06/06/2023 11:19

For some people that may be true @Felicia00 but not everyone. Especially people with long term obesity.

A good example could be those who attend WW or Slimming World meetings. They stick to their calories or points or Syns or whatever. But then use a lot of those points/Syns/calories on Muller Lights, WW crisps, chocolate etc etc. They struggle to stick to their points or calorie allowance. They are hungry. They crave sugary and fatty foods. And can’t lose weight. But they think they are doing all the right things. I mentioned WW and SW meetings in particular as I used to go to both. A morning meeting and nobody ate before getting weighed. So would eat afterwards. I watched people get weighed and go straight up to the ‘shop’ and buy a packet of WW crisps and/or a bar or biscuits. Zero nutritional value and actually possibly ingredients that cause addiction to those ‘foods’. I watched so many people do that and get bigger and bigger. I did it too.

I think the education around the chemicals in our foods is long overdue.

shumway · 06/06/2023 11:27

Waitrose has The Heart of Nature Pure Grain bread as well.

Watchkeys · 06/06/2023 11:38

@Felicia00

The thing is it's hard to trust what evidence is what, fat was considered bad now its not

Fat was not considered bad by systematic reviews/meta-analyses of randomised controlled trials. There was found to be very little evidence of fat being a problematic food in the first place. So that's the science to trust. Lots of things can strongly suggest association. Nina Teicholz showed a brilliant graph showing the correlation between divorce rates and margarine consumption to demonstrate this point. If you looked at it, you'd definitely think the two must be linked somehow.

@Bubbles254

I agree. We don't have the science and we badly need it, and like you, I'm working on common sense. The human race has evolved just fine for millions of years without this proliferation of ailments that we now have. I'm not going to eat stuff that's been 'invented', and that I don't 'understand' the ingredients of. My point was that we need more reliable science, not that you were trying to prove causation, or that UPFs are acceptable as food.

I find it very strange that if someone had a random slime on a spoon and tried to put it in our mouths, most of us would recoil, because we don't want to even taste something unidentified, let alone swallow it. And yet we're stuffing these ingredients down our faces as if there's no tomorrow. It doesn't make sense.

Twiglets1 · 06/06/2023 11:38

This thread is like an advert for Waitrose 😂

Not deliberate I know. I’m off there now with a shopping list from this thread.
But I do know lots of people will never shop at Waitrose due to the higher cost so that is an issue that needs addressing (by Govt I mean, to make nutritional food more affordable to help tackle obesity in a proactive rather than merely reactive way.)

Peridot1 · 06/06/2023 11:46

It is a bit @Twiglets1! But I think a good look at labels in places like Lidl or Aldi may thrown up some equally good options. I think a few people said more basic ranges sometimes have less ingredients in.

goldentoes · 06/06/2023 12:09

I think the sugar tax is driving more and more chemicals into our foods unfortunately. I struggle to find things like biscuits without a long list of items that look like they belong in a chemistry lab. I do make my own but two working parents and no outside help means I just cannot stay on top of dc not eating any junk at all, all of the time if I want to have any kind of life!

Usernamenotavailab · 06/06/2023 12:17

LexterDay · 04/06/2023 19:15

Synchronicity-speaking, it’s what I decided only recently.

Made my own hummus with olive oil the other day - yum.

No shop bought with rapeseed - even if it says “with” olive oil it’s mostly rapeseed oil. How annoying is that.

Made courgette spiralizer with pesto today.

Nearly always eat sourdough bread from a local bakery.

I’m not smug. I recognise I’m in this mode now. Partly because it feels a natural way of “dieting” and partly because I’m not too distracted with stress. So it’s also about slowing down I think. I’m sure at times I’ll have a toasted panini, or whatever when out and be relaxed about it. But so far I’m enjoying simple home-cooked food and avoiding the processed crap.

PS I made a simple tomato sauce for spaghetti the other day - only a few ingredients including who bought passata - but it was amazing (I can’t always say that about my cooking 😆). SO much tastier than a jar of ready made so called pasta sauce. Adieu.

How is rapeseed oil upf and olive oil isn’t?

both are pressed plant oils. There isn’t a clear benefit of one over the other.

I hate sourdough. Hate that sour tang.

Maraschina · 06/06/2023 12:21

Oh dear, the low carb crusaders have landed, parroting bad YouTube videos.

Fairislefandango · 06/06/2023 16:03

How is rapeseed oil upf and olive oil isn’t?

I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think that rapeseed oil is fine if it's cold-pressed. It's the refining process that makes it a bit dodgy, as far as I can recall.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 06/06/2023 16:28

How is rapeseed oil upf and olive oil isn’t

They use chemicals to clean the rapeseed oil, and water filtration which strips it of nutrients. With olive oil they just squash an olive and walk off with the juice that comes out.