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Weight loss chat

A space to talk openly about weight loss journeys and challenges. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Is it really as simple as less calories?

72 replies

StockholmCalling · 17/01/2023 22:53

I’m somewhat of a yo-yo dieter and at my lowest was around 9st and over 15st at my heaviest. I have some weight to lose and I don’t want to do the same as I’ve always done, which is usually quite restrictive. Great results but ultimately not sustainable. I don’t want to cut out carbs and sugar completely but do want to be able to moderate better and not rely on them as an emotional crutch.

If I literally just keep to a sensible amount of calories with moderate exercise should this work? I’ve convinced myself in the past that only cutting these things out completely works for me but like I say it’s just not sustainable long term. Obviously I know I can’t use my entire calorie allowance on carbs but I don’t have to cut them out completely, right?

OP posts:
ZestFest · 18/01/2023 11:57

I think calories in/calories out approach for long-term loss is vastly over-simplified and not really backed up by modern evidence. Yes of course if you don't eat you'll lose weight, but it's what happens after that which is significant. If you've re-set your body's weight point by yo-yo dieting then the body is going to do everything possible to claw back to that higher weight. Then you're battling all kinds of chemistry, not just food portions and hunger.

ZestFest · 18/01/2023 11:59

Simon Monkhouse - bariatric surgeon.

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=4830756397013016

MagpiePi · 18/01/2023 12:00

doadeer · 18/01/2023 09:46

I am always confused about low carb as counties like Japan eat a lot of carbs in rice but have low obesity.

Are their portion sizes much smaller than the average western diet though?

AutisticLegoLover · 18/01/2023 12:05

I think once you get to being

AutisticLegoLover · 18/01/2023 12:05

Try again.
I think once you get to being

Usergjdksndjsn · 18/01/2023 12:06

If I literally just keep to a sensible amount of calories with moderate exercise should this work?
only if your calories in is lower than your calories out

you could burn 2000 calories a day
and then eat 1500 calories exclusively in chocolate and carbs if you wanted to, and you’d still lose weight.

you’d be starving
but you’d be eating carbs and chocolate and losing weight.

get a fitness tracker, burn calories through the day. Eat less than you burn.

You need to be in a deficit of around 3500 to lose a lb
so that’s 500 calories a day, to lose 1lb a week.
250 calories a day to lose 1/2lb a week
and so on

MagpiePi · 18/01/2023 12:07

ZestFest · 18/01/2023 11:57

I think calories in/calories out approach for long-term loss is vastly over-simplified and not really backed up by modern evidence. Yes of course if you don't eat you'll lose weight, but it's what happens after that which is significant. If you've re-set your body's weight point by yo-yo dieting then the body is going to do everything possible to claw back to that higher weight. Then you're battling all kinds of chemistry, not just food portions and hunger.

I agree with this.

Any weight loss has to be sustained for a while (a year?) for your body to reset to its new 'normal' weight. I read about it in a book, maybe the 'Why we eat (too much)' one?

I'm another supporter of Nutracheck. It works out your daily calorie intake depending on whether you want to lose quickly, slowly or maintain a weight(important for when you have reached your goal weight!), and there is a lot of support from other users and qualified nutrisionists.

AutisticLegoLover · 18/01/2023 12:10

Ffs phone!
Once you get to being obese it's a whole lot more complex to lose weight than if it's a few pounds. The psychology behind getting that fat to start with needs to be addressed. Obesity is often the result of childhood trauma. It's an eating disorder as much as anorexia or bulimia. Cutting back on calories is unlikely to do much long term because the underlying cause hasn't been addressed. I need to lose a few pounds because I've been eating too much of the wrong thing. It's that simple for me. For others it won't be.

ThisLighterLife · 18/01/2023 12:15

I can’t use my entire calorie allowance on carbs but I don’t have to cut them out completely, right?

Right.
I eat anything I want BUT I stick to my calorie allowance as per my TDEE.
I initially lost nearly 4 stone and now I’ve maintained it for nearly 3 years just by logging my calories on MFP.

IF I do go over one day for a birthday or whatever, I don’t stress about it, I just stick to my calories the rest of the time. That said, I never go wildly over any more because MFP has helped me learn where calories hide.

DanseAvecLesLoups · 18/01/2023 12:19

Is it really as simple as less calories?

Largely yes, while there is some nuance involved the above pretty much underpins everything.

However these threads always end up with pseudoscientific claims being made and a few people claiming that diets do not work because they did 3 hours of cardio everyday and ate one rice cake a week and still put on weight.

Unescorted · 18/01/2023 12:24

Simon Monkhouse is a private practice bariatric surgeon. He charges £11k for a gastric bypass.

And this is the nub of so many conflicting pieces of advice. Those offering the advice have a personal reason / gain in convincing you that it is the service, surgery, book, plan, app that will (for a cost) be the cure for your weight gain.

If they said ...yep it is as simple as energy in being less than energy in they would be out of pocket. It is the same for many of the people spouting snake oil cures.

SpookyBlackCat · 18/01/2023 12:31

I too was shocked to find that it really WAS a case of calories in vs. calories out.

I think, as human beings, we just love to over-complicate everything and you have to remember that the diet industry is huge, so there is a lot of incentive out there to make it seem a lot more complicated than it really is. But, the truth is, it actually is really pretty simple. Focus on eating healthy, well-balanced, nutritious meals and try not to snack. Keep active and well-hydrated. It is perfectly possible to maintain this long term. Take your time to enjoy cooking rather than seeing it as a chore.

Miajk · 18/01/2023 12:41

StockholmCalling · 17/01/2023 22:53

I’m somewhat of a yo-yo dieter and at my lowest was around 9st and over 15st at my heaviest. I have some weight to lose and I don’t want to do the same as I’ve always done, which is usually quite restrictive. Great results but ultimately not sustainable. I don’t want to cut out carbs and sugar completely but do want to be able to moderate better and not rely on them as an emotional crutch.

If I literally just keep to a sensible amount of calories with moderate exercise should this work? I’ve convinced myself in the past that only cutting these things out completely works for me but like I say it’s just not sustainable long term. Obviously I know I can’t use my entire calorie allowance on carbs but I don’t have to cut them out completely, right?

I lost 60 lbs last year. It's not always easy but it is simple.

Only thing that works is sustainable lifestyle changes. Diets just make people fatter. Don't even think about calories or restricting foods - unless you're going to do it forever.

You're overweight because of your lifestyle, so you need to address the WHY. Then once you know why, take action - limit alcohol, or set a veg/fruit target like 5 a day, or find a better outlet for emotions/stress.

I drank too much, was an emotional eater and diets ruined and disregulated me.

So I reduced alcohol, are 3 meals a day to reconnect with hunger cues, and focused on eating for nutrition.

Plate by plate is the easiest way to do:
Each time you eat, make sure you have protein, fat, fruit/veg and carbs on your plate.

That's a balanced meal. Want a kit kat? Fine, maybe add a babybel (fat and protein) and some fruit/veg sticks. There you go, balanced snack that will keep you full and mentally AND physically satisfied.

Miajk · 18/01/2023 12:45

doadeer · 18/01/2023 09:46

I am always confused about low carb as counties like Japan eat a lot of carbs in rice but have low obesity.

It's because carbs are not a problem and are demonized for no reason.

Any carb - fruit, pasta, or fries will trigger an insulin response, that's normal. But it can lead to feeling hungry or having blood sugar spikes.

The best solution is to pair your carbs with protein & fats (that's why we have these groups that make up a balanced diet). This slows down the absorption/insulin response & keeps you fuller for longer.

Japan doesn't have an obesity issue because they eat their rice with fish/meat/other proteins and fats, therefore eating balanced meals. They also move more and traditionally rely less on processed foods.

Deathbyfluffy · 18/01/2023 12:49

Yup, it's that simple - put in less than you give out, and you'll lose weight.
I still eat the foods I want, just less of them; for example a kid's fish and chips from the chippy as it's less than half the size of the adult portion.

There's no need to abandon everything you love to eat - just eat less of it.
Exercise helps a lot too, but I appreciate this isn't an easy option for some.

Laurdo · 18/01/2023 12:54

If you're in a calorie deficit you should lose weight. Track your food on my fitness pal and aim for 50% carbs, 30% protein and 20% fat. Making sure you get enough protein will help you feel fuller for longer.

Get yout steps in. You should be hitting at least 10k a day. If you're a member of a gym, start weight training as the more muscle you have the more calories you'll burn just by existing.

No.1 rule.... Drink plenty of water.

ZestFest · 18/01/2023 12:55

Unescorted · 18/01/2023 12:24

Simon Monkhouse is a private practice bariatric surgeon. He charges £11k for a gastric bypass.

And this is the nub of so many conflicting pieces of advice. Those offering the advice have a personal reason / gain in convincing you that it is the service, surgery, book, plan, app that will (for a cost) be the cure for your weight gain.

If they said ...yep it is as simple as energy in being less than energy in they would be out of pocket. It is the same for many of the people spouting snake oil cures.

I don't disagree with the thrust of what you say in general terms. Thing is - you can read the evidence that underpins his video (New England Journal of Medicine)

RandomPerson42 · 18/01/2023 12:56

It’s not entirely simple.

Very often just cust cutting calories works for only a short time until the person hits a plateau due to the body adjusting the metabolism to the new normal of less calories. Sometimes the weight-loss just goes much slower, but many people stop losing weight without further additional calorie restriction.

The “average” calories for a female is very often over-estimated too as it assumes a 30 year old gym-goer not a 50 year old sedent, I would say the average maintenance calories for a man is 2000 and for a woman is 1500, so a woman would need to cut to 1000 calories to lose 1 pound a week. Obviously if the person is very active and goes to the gym or runs then that average man can have 2,500 maintenance and that average woman can have 2,000 maintenance.

Intermittent fasting works well as long as you stick to a maximum of an 8 hour eating window to start with and no snacks and if you stick to eating real non-processed food. Over time you should aim to increase the fasting period so you are only eating in a 6 hour window, then a 4 hour window etc. Fasting can have quick results which helps people believe in it.

The reality is though that to lose significant weight a decent amount of activity (housework or gym classes or walking the dog - however you want) is needed. I know someone who lost quite a few stone over a couple of years by changing lunch to only tomato soup and walking for at least two hours each day (walked to work, walked home at lunchtime, walked back to work, walked home in the evening).

For me personally the best thing I did for my weight and my health was stop eating carbs for a while to get to the weight I wanted. No grains (rice, flour, sugar), no starchy veg (potato), no heavy fruit (apples, pears etc) - only berries, more protein and more fat. I stopped getting hungry and found it easy to not eat.

Fruit is full of fructose so the enemy of weight loss - the only good thing in fruit is vitamin c - so stick to strawberries & raspberries.

Eggs are almost the perfect food - they contain everything the human body needs with the only exception being no vitamin c.

The Japanese do not eat crazy amounts of rice despite what you might think - they don’t gorge on carbs, and they do eat a lot of fat (fish) and one of the best health foods they have often is Natto - which is great for the heart and circulatory system. Healthy japanese people see a massive down-grade to their health and weight when they move west to our diet.

Now I am the weight I want I exercise 3 times a week and am careful - I still avoid bread, sugar etc. where possible but don’t cry if friends want to go to pizzahut.

I do a one hour full-body workout that is hard (exercising arms, chest, legs etc all at the same time) and that only burns 300 calories which is about 3 chocolate hob nob biscuits. So a pizza undoes an entire weeks exercise for me.

So you need a lot of exercise to only think of weight-loss. One of the easiest factors for weight loss is that muscle burns more calories so build more muscle by exercising and eating more protein.

The healthiest diet is a mediterranean diet with more meat and without bread and pasta.

Bestcatmum · 18/01/2023 13:01

Yes that's exactly what it is. I have never failed to lose weight counting calories in my 20s, 30s, 40s 50s and 60s.
You can choose not to do any exercise and eat less or do exercise and eat more.
The secret to keeping it off is weighing yourself daily and if it's stable then great, if you've put on a few pounds deal with it straight away. Don't leave it until a few pounds has turned into a few stone.
Of course I haven't done this because I like to eat,drink and be merry but my mother has stayed slim all her life using that exact method as have my two siblings.
As I've got older I have started doing this - weighing daily - because it's too much of a faff trying to get 2 stone off. Its easier getting a couple of pounds off.

Bestcatmum · 18/01/2023 13:10

I don't deny myself any food because doing that makes me binge eat but if I'm going to have chocolate or crisps I make sure it's a fun bar or a small multipacket size of crisps rather than a grab a bag. I like the slimfast pretzels.
But generally I find I don't put weight on if I keep the amount of carbs - spuds, bread down to a very small portion and fill up with veg. I don't eat meat or drink alcohol. I eat wholewheat carbs only no processed stuff and make all my own meals and soup from scratch.
It isn't that much hassle. Today I had a big salad with two boiled eggs in it and lots of leafy greens and beetroot with a few chickpeas, an apple and later on I'm having a big bowl of homemade soup with wholewheat croutons on the top.
I never eat breakfast because if I do I'm asleep by lunchtime and feel awful.

Laurdo · 18/01/2023 13:12

RandomPerson42 · 18/01/2023 12:56

It’s not entirely simple.

Very often just cust cutting calories works for only a short time until the person hits a plateau due to the body adjusting the metabolism to the new normal of less calories. Sometimes the weight-loss just goes much slower, but many people stop losing weight without further additional calorie restriction.

The “average” calories for a female is very often over-estimated too as it assumes a 30 year old gym-goer not a 50 year old sedent, I would say the average maintenance calories for a man is 2000 and for a woman is 1500, so a woman would need to cut to 1000 calories to lose 1 pound a week. Obviously if the person is very active and goes to the gym or runs then that average man can have 2,500 maintenance and that average woman can have 2,000 maintenance.

Intermittent fasting works well as long as you stick to a maximum of an 8 hour eating window to start with and no snacks and if you stick to eating real non-processed food. Over time you should aim to increase the fasting period so you are only eating in a 6 hour window, then a 4 hour window etc. Fasting can have quick results which helps people believe in it.

The reality is though that to lose significant weight a decent amount of activity (housework or gym classes or walking the dog - however you want) is needed. I know someone who lost quite a few stone over a couple of years by changing lunch to only tomato soup and walking for at least two hours each day (walked to work, walked home at lunchtime, walked back to work, walked home in the evening).

For me personally the best thing I did for my weight and my health was stop eating carbs for a while to get to the weight I wanted. No grains (rice, flour, sugar), no starchy veg (potato), no heavy fruit (apples, pears etc) - only berries, more protein and more fat. I stopped getting hungry and found it easy to not eat.

Fruit is full of fructose so the enemy of weight loss - the only good thing in fruit is vitamin c - so stick to strawberries & raspberries.

Eggs are almost the perfect food - they contain everything the human body needs with the only exception being no vitamin c.

The Japanese do not eat crazy amounts of rice despite what you might think - they don’t gorge on carbs, and they do eat a lot of fat (fish) and one of the best health foods they have often is Natto - which is great for the heart and circulatory system. Healthy japanese people see a massive down-grade to their health and weight when they move west to our diet.

Now I am the weight I want I exercise 3 times a week and am careful - I still avoid bread, sugar etc. where possible but don’t cry if friends want to go to pizzahut.

I do a one hour full-body workout that is hard (exercising arms, chest, legs etc all at the same time) and that only burns 300 calories which is about 3 chocolate hob nob biscuits. So a pizza undoes an entire weeks exercise for me.

So you need a lot of exercise to only think of weight-loss. One of the easiest factors for weight loss is that muscle burns more calories so build more muscle by exercising and eating more protein.

The healthiest diet is a mediterranean diet with more meat and without bread and pasta.

No one should be eating 1000 calories unless they're a toddler.

I know the keto people will disagree but it's also not advisable to completely cut carbs. Your body needs them especially if you're exercising. You just need to make sure your macros are balanced and you're getting enough protein to build muscle.

It's also not a great idea to perform exercise with the mindset of burning off a pizza or earning a dessert. If you focus on exercise being to get fitter and stronger it'll seem like less of a chore and you'll be more likely to continue doing it. Pick something you actually enjoy doing.

There's nothing wrong with the odd treat. A pizza at the weekend doesn't undo all your efforts thoughout the week. If you're consistently eating properly and exercising, 1 day isn't going to undo that. Denying ourselves a treats will just make you more likely to throw the towel in.

AutisticLegoLover · 18/01/2023 13:16

Fruit contains fibre, antioxidants, vitamins and minerals. It's incorrect to say the only good thing about fruit is vitamin c.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/5-a-day/why-5-a-day/

Unescorted · 18/01/2023 13:17

I would be interested in seeing that paper.... Do you have a link? I did a search for his papers and nothing came up for the NEMJ for him.

hamstersarse · 18/01/2023 13:23

NHS advice on losing weight is awful - I would disregard it completely

CICO is really simplified. I can guarantee that I could eat 5000 calories in a day entirely of eggs and not put on weight. Swap that to Warburtons Toastie with margarine and nutella, I can guarantee I would.

All calories are not equal, and all humans do not react the same to every food.

I suspect (and there is science out there reporting on this) that the huge increase in obesity is down to the oils that are used in everything (UPF). The 'healthy' vegetable oils (see NHS) are just not processed by the body, these poly unsaturated fats cause damage to the mitochondria and they cause inflammation. They seem to then cause weight gain.

I think people lose weight on keto partly because they mostly cut out these shit fats, but also if insulin resistant they resolve that.

The biggest advice which basically all the professionals agree on (except SW and WW as they have product to push) is to cut out these oils and thereby UPF

Tiffan · 18/01/2023 13:25

It's not quite that simple but almost.
Foods with x amount of calories are actually metabolised differently. For example a handful almonds may be 90 calories, two chocolate biscuits might be 90 calories - bur studies suggest that your body will metabolise the almonds better which means you won't put on weight from the almonds but you will from the biscuits.

Focus on eating whole foods and don't over eat them. If it means you calorie count to get an idea of portion sizes then go for it. You'll get a better result from this vs calorie counting with processed foods. That's the same whether you go low carb, low fat, whatever.

But IMO the most sustainable is just eating regular food - stick to the veg and fruit aisle, the meat aisle, the dairy aisle, the beans/ pulses aisle. Make your meals from that. Job done.

Don't over complicate it!!