Desperate measures for desperate times.

[Pickypolly]

I’m 50, perimeno, fat and getting fatter by the day.
I’ve started 5:2.
But 5:2 the other way around, 800 cals a day for 5 days, eating ok 2 days.
Breakfast:
1 weetabix, soya milk (about 50mls) milled linseed mix .

Lunch: 1 small banana, one small apple. (Or small bunch of grapes or 6 cherries)

Snack 1 dark chocolate rice cake.

Tea: very small bowl of rice(about 5 tablespoons) a small bowl of vegan veg in a sauce (sweet &sour or lentils in curry sauce)
Or sometimes beans on whole wheat bread.
1 decaf coffee, lots of water.

All journaled on MFP.
Still I gain weight.
I’ve upped my steps too.
I’m about 98% plant based.

What the fuck else can I do?

Been doing this for about 6 weeks.
Lost about 10lbs.
Over a 2 day period at Christmas, I didn’t go mad, but gained 12 lbs.
so utterly pissed off.

You ask for desperate measures, here they are:

• remove all added sugar from your diet, this means the dark chocolate rice cake, all. the sauce jars, any food that says "sugar" anywhere in the ingredients listed, the baked beans
• remove all processed grains , this mean white rice, even whole wheat bread if it is the fake one (manufacturers can label whole a bread made with white - written as wheat flour - if they then add bran in the mix)
• remove the processed oils which will eliminate the majority of junk food

And anyone who wants to lose weight should be careful with bananas and grapes. Have fruit once a day and prefer berries over very sugary fruit

I don't normally respond on here, but I feel compelled to jump in. I'd say think about the following:

• you're not tracking the rest of the days. There's no way to find out what your total calories per week is, without tracking. You'll be surprised by how much you can overeat on a single day.

• it's all very well doing 800 a say (the blood sugar diet proposes doing 800 for 4 weeks), but the balance of your food is not great. There needs to be more protein and veg.

• I don't know what your starting weight is or your height, but I propose you pick something sustainable to do, not a crash diet.

I'm sure there will be other contradicting comments, but I'd say track all 7 days of your calories regardless of whether it's a normal day or not, and prioritise protein so that you get to 60-80g a day. Your deficit should be calculated from what you eat in a week, although you can still eat low cal for 5 days if you prefer.

With so little calories I would be trying to eat as much nutrient rich food as I could, and as the above poster said, more protein and veg definitely.

Think about it this way
I kg is 7700 cal. I am not talking water etc.
So to put on 12pounds - 5.4kg over 2 days, you would have to consume INCREDIBLE number of calories.

I agree with others, you need to balance the food better. More veg and protein.

I agree with pp. You need to track what you eat on the 2 days so you know.

@somewheresorted

With so little calories I would be trying to eat as much nutrient rich food as I could, and as the above poster said, more protein and veg definitely.

I would suggest you go with a formal programme which is nutritionally balanced, based on unprocessed foods and gives set menus:

• I like Joel Furhman’s eat to live (it’s basically vegan)

I’ve heard good things about body coach too

Honestly I think nearly any diet would work if it’s sustainable (ie you basically like the main foods it uses), not too complicated or hardcore

Have you had your thyroid checked?

Don't crash diet - you'll inevitably burn out, go crazy, and at best end up where you started and at worst put on more weight.

Best advice - eat a minimum of 100g protein a day, stick to 1200 calories a day (if you insist on being extreme with it) and weigh yourself every day to get an average. Fluctuations are the devil and they can range from 3-5lbs in a single day. So many variables. If you're going to get exasperated every time you put weight on then weigh yourself every single day.

At 50, you really don't need to get stuck doing miserable crash dieting.

Also if you can start weight training. Prioritise your health not just how "fat" you look. Muscle is amazing for metabolic health so start thinking about building muscle, consuming minimum 100g protein a day so you don't lose muscle mass and the rest will follow.

I track 7 days on MFP.
On my days where I have additional calories I have below 2000.
I gained 12lbs on the run up to what I thought was my period which has not yet arrived. I had consumed about 2000 cals for 2 days.

Weight loss stops and maintains if I eat this little.
Add in a sandwich for lunch and/or one other item of food in my day and the weight increases dramatically.
In other words if I consume 1200 a day, I can gain up to 2lbs per week.

I am not in the least bit interested in how I look, I don’t care how fat I look one bit, it’s my health I am concerned about.
I have a BMI of 32, I am probably pre diabetic, I am breathless going up stairs. Not good.

Cutting out rice & fruit which are the staples of my diet, (I only eat whole grain other than the 5 tablespoons of white rice twice a week)
I pack in an awful lot of fresh veg into my evening meal.
I’m stuck, frustrated and unhealthy. Trying really really hard and actually can sustain this eating pattern if it gets my BMI down.

Tonight’s tea is 2 vegan sausages cooked with vegan gravy, brown & red lentils, celery, chick peas, red onion, carrots, and sweet corn on the side. It’s a small portion too.
(I batch cook in my slow cooker and freeze into small tubs to portion out fairly accurately).

Do you move much during the day? If you feel unhealthy, then you need to work on being healthier, and that include moving more.

You're frustrated because you're looking for quick fix, and the diet is not making you feel full. Have you checked things like thyroid already?

Another thing is don't get too fixated on the weight, but how you feel about your body. If you make an effort to move everyday, eat healthily in a sustainable way to lose fat not weight, you'll start to feel better. The weight is just a number.

Weight loss stops and maintains if I eat this little.
Add in a sandwich for lunch and/or one other item of food in my day and the weight increases dramatically.
In other words if I consume 1200 a day, I can gain up to 2lbs per week.

I think you must be missing something.
Gaining 2pound-900g a week if you are on 1200 cal means your body is burning 200 cal a day. Even at 50 you simply cannot have energy requirements lower than patients in a coma.

Plus you say on your 5x800 and 2xup to2000 you lost about 0.8 pound a week. That's up to 1140 cal a day approximate. You can't, therefore, logically be stalling and adding 2 pounds a week on 1200.

Look again if you are logging correctly, look at what you are eating (If I have salt heavy meals it affects my weight in for example). It has to show somewhere. What occasionally happens to me is that I weight for as no loss for a week but than it shows 2kg loss next week. Bodies are weird like that. Lile to make fun of us...

@Pickypolly

Tonight’s tea is 2 vegan sausages cooked with vegan gravy, brown & red lentils, celery, chick peas, red onion, carrots, and sweet corn on the side. It’s a small portion too. (I batch cook in my slow cooker and freeze into small tubs to portion out fairly accurately).

Maybe, since you are struggling so much, try removing all processed food, and this includes the vegan sausages, the vegan gravy, high in additives, sugar, starch, chemicals.

Food is so much more than just calories, it affects hormones, gut bacteria, enzymes, cellular pathways .
In a stew with brown lentils, red lentils and chickpeas, you don't need to add sausage anyway, put cauliflower, or broccoli instead.
Sweet corn (from a can?) is fine if it is only once or twice a week, but definitely not more than that.

Processed food are absolutely linked to weight gain. www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/eating-highly-processed-foods-linked-weight-gain . Equal calories, two groups, the processed foods one gained more weight.

If health is your goal, it goes beyond the weight, highly processed foods are detrimental to health as they increase the risks of cardiovascular disease, diabetes and cerebrovascular disorders.

Read the science of skinny about the impact of processed food

I have the constitution of a sloth it seems.
So you are saying cut out all processed foods, cut out fruits as it’s high in sugar, cut out the 88 calorie rice cake due to the sugar, so what am I left with with my diet?

I am able to sustain this diet for a long time. It’s control you see. Control of portion, control on timings, control over not being distracted.

I’m old, I’m not interested in a quick fix, slow and steady for life will do me, as long as it shifts to a healthy BMI.
Don’t care what I look like, don’t care as long as I’m comfortable in clothing that isn’t a size 20, just don’t care.

Never have I struggled so much to loose weight, never have I had to tightly restrict & reduce intake for absolutely zero results.

Need to read up and get educated & look at it in a different light.
Menopause is an absolute bitch.

Whereabouts are you OP? Liverpool University runs a 2 year nutritionist led weight loss study. One of my colleagues has done it and lost a lot of weight. Its basically calorie counting and exercise. Google Switch Study Liverpool Uni

I didn't say or call you anything, you are asking for help, because you are struggling like never before.

I am only suggesting you try removing ultra-processed food. You can still have rice cakes, but maybe make your own. mykidslickthebowl.com/homemade-rice-cracker-recipe/

A small square of dark 70% chocolate, if you are desperate is fine as well, it is the chemicals, the enhancers, emulsifiers, which are dominant in ultra processed food, vegan substitutes, the sugar in everything including the baked beans.

You can have fruit, but not several pieces and between grapes and a green pear, maybe opt for a less sugary one.

You could have rolled oats with flaxseed and blueberries, baked tofu instead of sausages, and kale chips. You can have your rice (better if brown or black) , but instead of a sauce in a jar, cook it in a minestrone . Same calories, four times the fibre, and loads of prebiotic

For changes to be meaningful and lasting , you need to change mindset and you gut bacteria who send signals for certain foods. If they are used to sweet, snacks, you will have endless battles. Cut sugar, increase volume and diversity of vegetables and you will change your bacteria which will send signals for the vegetables.

Calories count absolutely, but the other ingredients in a food will influence your body as well. You are plant base, eat plants, not what comes out of a factory plant.

Rice cakes are like eating polystyrene and have no business calling themselves cakes. Id give them up, no bother and go for a snack with a few more calories, eg a soreen lunchbox loaf or a Whitworths Snack Shot.

So you are saying cut out all processed foods, cut out fruits as it’s high in sugar, cut out the 88 calorie rice cake due to the sugar, so what am I left with with my diet?

@Cormoran is right that it is processed food that plays havoc with metabolism at your (and my) age.

Veganism done well has to be really carefully managed otherwise you end up eating a lot of processed crap. In theory it is great and moral etc. but doing it healthily takes a lot of effort

Are you set on being vegan or was it a weightloss thing?

@Pickypolly

I’m 50, perimeno, fat and getting fatter by the day. I’ve started 5:2. But 5:2 the other way around, 800 cals a day for 5 days, eating ok 2 days. Breakfast: 1 weetabix, soya milk (about 50mls) milled linseed mix .

Lunch: 1 small banana, one small apple. (Or small bunch of grapes or 6 cherries)

Snack 1 dark chocolate rice cake.

Tea: very small bowl of rice(about 5 tablespoons) a small bowl of vegan veg in a sauce (sweet &sour or lentils in curry sauce)
Or sometimes beans on whole wheat bread.
1 decaf coffee, lots of water.

All journaled on MFP.
Still I gain weight.
I’ve upped my steps too.
I’m about 98% plant based.

What the fuck else can I do?

If your body thinks you're experiencing a famine (severely reduced calories) then it will try to hold on to every scrap of food - and you'll likely run risk of triggering intense hunger. I've been learning about intuitive eating for the last 7 months. I've lost weight slowly - but sustainably. It's dietician (not nutritionist - protected terms are important! 😅) approved and helps to fix disorders eating habits and yo-yo dieting. Maybe take a look? Evelyn Tribole is a super source of information: www.instagram.com/p/CI8dU2iFZ9r/?igshid=170mwwliz61ou

I also like the Feeding Littles page - lots of ways to make it work for families. 💛

Good luck - I hope you finish 2021 with more love for your body! 😁 it's tough, but damn - it makes a difference!

You shouldn't be cutting out anything. If you like some chocolate, have it. (and I'll disagree with anyone who says you should cut out anything completely)

If you're not interested in a quick fix, then don't be fixated by the number of your scales or how low your calories need to go. Yes you need to eat less than you burn but it's a lot more than that. If you think you can sustain this diet for a long time, then why is it not working for you? (how long have you been on it, 6 weeks? Although if it's 6 weeks it might not be long enough to show results) Obviously something's gone wrong there, either you're not measuring your food properly, or somehow you have missed some foods when tracked, at a guess.

If you want to be healthy, you need to lose fat, not weight. Weight fluctuation is normal, because of water in the body, but fat loss is difficult to measure, apart from maybe the waist circumference.

Having said that, even though you said you don't care what you look like, you care about your clothing size, so in a way, you do care about your appearance. For that, you need to take up some strength training. If you're a newbie to exercise, light dumbbell exercise will be a good starting point. The reason is that it keeps your muscles which help you burn fat.

If you want some well informed opinion, search for Emma Storey Gordon on Instagram or podcast. I learned so much from her, and have got to my smallest size in 20 years following her advice - healthily.

In any case, I really recommend you to stop limiting your calories like you are doing now and start looking at everything from a health point of view.

cormoran I was calling myself a sloth, I didn’t for one moment think you were saying that,
Thank you so much for your advice, it really is very much appreciated.
Inspired I slung a whole load of veg into my slow cooker with a tonne of tomatoes and made a lovely fresh homemade pasta sauce. I’ll freeze it. I’ve got some wholewheat pasta which I weigh out. So some nice meals for next week.
I only eat very dark chocolate and only ever a small square if I’m craving something sweet.

And I’m not a big fan of vegan meat replacement foods. I found some sausages that do not taste too bad so have them in the freezer & just have a couple occasionally. I don’t eat anything else along that ilk.
I was totally plant based for 18 months, I know I can do it happily. Again, ate super healthy, limited calories no fat and still just only maintained a high BMI, didn’t lose a thing.
Haven’t had thyroid checked, I’ve no symptoms of hypothyroidism do doubt it’s that.
I’m so fed up.

Just curious, did you become vegan for ethic or health reasons? Please note that vegan diet means you might need to look at extra supplements. In any case, please increase your protein intake, which will mean lots of lentils or peas in your case. I understand your frustration, but the stress is not helpful for weight loss good luck.

Not vegan, plant based.
For health.

Same for me. I adopted a plant based diet to reduce my life time risk of cancer of 60% (with shitty prognosis in case of it).

I don't base my health on some Instagram influencers who make a living or run a business with a trend.
I went straight to University professors and I would recommend " the Path to longevity " by Luigi Fontana.
It is not a weightloss book but following a more high plants, high fibre approach.
There is so much confusion now about what to eat, not to eat, no fat, no carb, each preaching a way and again making money of it.
The more we talk about the good or bad, the more the people seem knowledgeable about macro, and microcellular processed, the fatter and unhealthier they seem.

Michael Pollan, in his book, " in defence of food" summaries well how this "nutritionism" is only good for business but not for health. You can read an article here www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html (you can read a couple of free articles in the NY times, you might have to register your email)

His advice is go real, food that existed when your grandmother was a child and avoid the process food.