So if nearly all of us are going to put the weight back on again, is there any point in trying to lose it in the first place?

[Fingalswave]

Caught brief glimpses of TV progs on this subject recently. Apparently, only 20% of dieters succeed in maintaining their weight loss? If this is true, why are we encouraged by doctors to try and reduce our weight? Does anyone have any links to the science pls?

And as I was going to start trying to lose weight in Lent, is there any point?

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4243872/How-9-10-diets-fail-yo-yo-dieting-better-fat.html

I know it's the Daily Mail but it does say it's better to keep trying than give in and get fat.

There are several factors as to why people put the weight back on following a weight loss program.

The body has a set point, which is more inclined to go up than down. So, if you lose 10kgs your body will fight in a number of ways to put that back on and it will continue to do so. It will lower your metabolism, so you will put more of the calorie content of your intake on as fat stores. It will lower your activities levels to help it do that.

Add to that the fact that when you lose weight your body will sacrifice your expensive muscle tissue first before it sacrifices fat, so you have a lower metabolism because you have less muscle.

Add in to that the psychological issues of being on calorie restricted diet in a high calorie environment. The amount of control you have to have to lose weight means that you constantly think about food and are more likely to binge eat.

If you diet, the chances of you not ending up more overweight afterwards are pretty slim. As to why some people never put on weight, a large part of that is that they've never really dieted.

A great starting point for this info is a ted talk called something like "why diets don't work". I will look for a link to post.

excellent succinct post DontAskIDontKnow thanks

The most depressing aspect, according to the Dr Michael Mosley programme last week (if that's the one the original poster was referring to), is that when former fatties lose weight, their metabolism seems to be affected to the extent that they have to eat fewer calories to maintain their new, slimmer weight than someone of the same weight who has never dieted.

Someone asked why slim people don't get fat in the first place. I think it's a lot to do with genetic make up; slim people don't have the same appetite as the obese, and are not stimulated to the same extent by sugary carbohydrates. while they say they can eat what they like and not put on a pound, there's a very big difference between what they want to eat and what I like to eat.

I can guarantee that if I swapped my diet with Kate Moss then I would lose weight and she would gain!!!

I've battled with my weight since i was 13, and am now 50, and I'm now at my all time heaviest weight, so I certainly don't have any answers. Though I think the conclusion of the programme was that even though the vast majority of dieters (and I think it was as high as 95%) regain the weight and more, the best course of action is to forget weight (as if!!), and focus on eating healthily and being active.

I know that if I stopped scoffing six jam sandwiches of an evening and cut down on the cream cakes I may not transform into a size ten overnight, but I'd be damn sight slimmer than I am now!

So what it all seems to point to is that exercise is perhaps more important for keeping weight off long term than it is given credit for, so far as I can tell...I've always had it drummed in to me that it's diet, diet, diet and exercise is more about overall fitness and health.

If you exercise, regardless of net effect on the calories, you should in theory be increasing/maintaining your metabolism? Which in turn should mean that your bmr increases/maintains.

So.......how much exercise would be required, d'y'reckon?

I have battled with my weight for decades since my first period, no-one knew about PCOS then, I was 50 before my Doctor mentioned it as being my problem with conceiving, went home and googled it, all my symptoms including weight problems were there. So there was a good reason for my problems. I have never been a big eater because of this weight gain thing breastfeeding was my only quick weight loss solution.

From what I understood watching the program, the problem is that the fatter you get , the slower your metabolism becomes ( at least if you have been overweight for a longish amount of time?) so then it's harder losing the extra weight. So the easier way would be not gaining too much extra weight in first place? Easier said then done I know!

I had a gastric bypass and lost 8 stone. 6 yrs out I'm still 6.5 stone down which is still overweight/obese but Normal ish

There's so much still being discovered about this and it's likely that factors mentioned upthread, like gut bacteria be individual response to stimulants such as sugar and highly processed foods are at play....

But I also think that too much emphasis is put on the number on the scale, rather than focusing on lifestyle. It is entirely possible to very fit and healthy and a weight above 'healthy' on a BMI chart. Although we often profess to be dieting for health, typically a first diet is in pursuit of aesthetic goals. And instead of restricting food intake, if we looked at and improved the quality of our diet and our activity levels, practised listening to what our bodies need and feel best on (in terms of what and how much of any food type) instead of demonising certain foods and fighting our appetites, then we would probably achieve our individual optimum weight and best health. Once you get into that diet merry go round things only go downhill on every front, we end up in a battle we can't win.

There was an interesting programme last year about gut bacteria. They took twins where one was fat and one wasn't and the amount of this particular gut bacteria in the fat one was lower than the slim one.

I've found 5:2 the best way of losing weight and maintaining it. I did low carb high fat for a while but I just don't like the principle of "banning" any food. And I felt my diet was very samey on low carb. I still try to eat relatively low carb though - try to stick to pulses and beans etc but certainly don't deny myself bread or potatoes. For me 5:2 has really helped me be mindful about what I'm putting in my mouth.

I think I saw that programme, busy. The part gut bacteria plays,is interesting, and may hold some of the answers as to why some can maintain weight and others find it more difficult. I don't think there's been much research into the role of gut bacteria yet, sadly.

I'm interested in the role of muscle and exercise too. As an older woman who always found losing weight easy, I'm finding it far more difficult now. Apparently it's something to do with loss of muscle tone; as others have said, muscle takes more calories to maintain.

I'm not sure if hormones play a part as well.

I know there are slim older women, but they tend to be few and far between imho.

Some great weight loss stories on here.

ClashCityRocker
It's not just exercise, it's movement in general.
If you do the government recommended 30 mins x 5 a week. That's 2 and a half hours out of 7x24. That's about 1%. So people will spend 1% of their week doing exercise and spend the rest in either a bed or a chair and think they're doing enough.

Walk more. If you have a desk job, get up every half hour. If you watch television in the evening, sit on the floor. We spend all day using chairs to support ourselves and then moan about a lack of core strength.

Also, eating processed food requires less work from your body. Calories in - calories out is a fallacy. If you eat 100 calories of sugar vs 100 calories of broccoli your body will get a lot more energy out of the sugar. That's part of the reason we like processed food so much.

Our culture places the cause of obesity on the individual. It's endemic. The cause has multiple factors and is based on the way our society is structured. It encourages unhealthy behaviour.

Up to a point, being obese doesn't make you unhealthy. If you have healthy lifestyle behaviours you are no more unhealthy than a person of a more acceptable bmi. It's when the lifestyle factors are unhealthy that the weight is a contributing factor.

Lots of further responses on here - thank you for them.

Thank you especially for the posts that give one hope!

I am learning lots from this thread ... .

Here's the ted talk I mentioned in my earlier post:
www.ted.com/talks/sandra_aamodt_why_dieting_doesn_t_usually_work
She explains the set point really well and shows evidence that the relationship between weight and health isn't as direct as we're made to believe.

This is a really good thread - you've only got to look at how many weight loss threads there are on here and the number of different diets and eating plans that are talked about on m'net. I have tried endless diets and plans over at least 20 years and I've lost the grand total of NOTHING!!! I'm still 12st 10 and 5ft 7 I'd like to be 10 7. Yes I've lost weight on these diets and sometimes too much but I've ALWAYS put it back on!!! I can't stand diet regimes and diet speak, I tend to rebel and overeat
I didn't watch the prog mentioned here but I think that diets aren't working - just on the basis of my own experience. I'm interested in the research into our micro-biome and its impact on our weight, advocated by Dr Tim Spector and the British gut project, they suggest a Mediterranean diet and some fasting too - I can't get myself galvanised for fasting. I'm at the stage of trying to eat healthy, not too much processed foods and take exercise.

I know from experience it is hard for serial dieters, but we have to keep on going what is the alternative.

dbl - even though you haven't regained all the weight, you are sort of proving the point ? Each time you diet it gets harder and harder, because set point, because loss of muscle (you typically regain fat when you regain lost weight, not the muscle you lost) - age leads naturally to loss of muscle also (menopause has a dramatic effect on this, hence women;s body shape often changing to flat bum (big muscles there that deteriorate) and round tummy (best remedy is weight training). I also believe the body gets more efficient and conserving fat the more you threaten it with starvation by dieting.

measles The alternative - IMO - is to take an 80:20 approach to diet...don't ban anything but aim to make 80% of your diet nutrient dense, as fresh and unprocessed as possible. Then if the 20% is made up of doughnuts, pizza and wine then it's ok.

Find some form of movement that you enjoy and do it regularly.

Listen to what your body likes in terms of food and exercise and sleep - eat mindfully. Often the things we think we love but shouldn't be eating - eg a McDonalds, when eaten slowly, really tasted and savoured....isn't as great as we thought! And often if you slow down and savour, you start to recognise how much is enough, rather than consuming the entire plate on autopilot.

Don't make appetite wrong, it serves a purpose just as the impulse to sleep or pee does...but use what you know about nutrition when deciding what to eat - continual cinsumption of crap does not satisfy your appetite because it isn't giving your body what it needs...plus there's the whole sugar rollercoaster/cravings it sets off. And often when we get into that cycle we don't even really enjoy those foods because there's a whole sense of guilt or rebellion or pretence that we aren't doing it, which is insane. At least if you are going to eat the foods that don't serve your body as well as others then relax and properly enjoy it!

If you do all this I think your body will eventually find its healthy weight, though that may not correspond with what you think it should be and may be higher than if you had never dieted. You will certainly be healthier and more relaxed about food!

It sounds v interesting but I can't open it past the first page - I get onto the link but can't get past that

So what it all seems to point to is that exercise is perhaps more important for keeping weight off long term than it is given credit for, so far as I can tell... If you exercise, regardless of net effect on the calories, you should in theory be increasing/maintaining your metabolism? Which in turn should mean that your bmr increases/maintains.

Clashcityrocker - yes, my take-out too. And also what I have found to be true personally. I've tried every diet under the sun since having children and gaining a stone and a half, but since I've started exercising - only twice a week, mind - the weight has very gradually started to fall off, without me really thinking about modifying my diet too much. I don't over-eat particularly anyway, but am a terrible between-meals grazer.

I think the other thing that happens when you exercise is that you tend to be a bit more aware of what you're eating so you don't undo all your good work. Plus you feel a bit better about yourself mentally, so have, perhaps, less need to comfort eat.

I just haven't got any time or energy to exercise between work and a baby. Just zero.

Oh, and if any of you reading this are like me, and thinking "yes, but I just really struggle to make exercise a habit" for whatever reason (as I was), than I highly recommend reading Gretchen Rubin's 'Better than Before: mastering the habits of our everyday lives'. It was such an eye-opener for me. As an 'Obliger' (great at doing stuff for other people, terrible at doing it for myself) - I NEED to be held accountable. That's why to stick to my exercise regime, I have to run and do a class with a friend. If I'm just left to my own devices and a gym membership, then I won't go. I don't let other people down though - so it has forced me to stick with it. A major breakthrough for someone who, up until her early 40s, has always hated exercise, and now loves it. (Sorry for slight hijack - just wanted to share as it's such a brilliant book!).

I am a terrible yo-yo dieter and have spent 16+ years gaining and losing weight within a six stone bracket. I have clothes in every size between 10 and 18 (partly due to insane inconsistency in sizing but also due to my madly fluctuating weight). I wouldn't give up and accept my top weight but I know that getting back down to my bottom weight and staying there will simply never happen. So whilst I won't give up and not bother anymore, I will set my sights on the realistic and achievable figure rather than the ideal I used to strive for in my teens. Setting my goal at something I could never manage is probably what propelled me into yo-yo dieting to start with as I would get discouraged and think why bother if I will never be dainty or delicate? in the 90s when I was a teenager, it was all about 'superwaifs' and 'heroin chic' and as a busty hourglass I was never going to pull off the androgynous slip kind of look. So I thought I was fat and hideous and so I might as well enjoy a doughnut or three. And then panic and crash diet and then snap and binge and so on and so on. Nowadays, I can see a greater diversity in body shapes and availability of clothes to fit and suit a range of styles and frames and I can see that I could have a healthy body and look great which makes me feel calmer and therefore more able to actually eat in a healthy and sustainable way which gives me more energy and gets me into a virtuous cycle rather than the rollercoaster of diets.

For me, pregnancy and breastfeeding really wrecked my eating patterns (severe sickness followed by insanely high appetite) and now I'm finished with that, I feel a more stable weight is possible. A big setback for me is a stressful job which exhausts me but doesn't exercise me - but drains me so much I can't get a decent exercise routine going. Long working hours makes it tempting to eat badly as well plus a couple of glasses of wine to unwind...bad habits are so easy to get into!