sorry, basic question: what's wrong with carbs?

[inkyfingers]

I need to lose a stone and years ago was into dieting more and it was all about counting calories. I could tell you approx calorie value of most foods ! But friends etc and MN are much more about low-carb. I have just ordered India Knight's diet book which is all low-carb. I'm up for it, but don't understand why carbs are the big sin and not fat (which is higher in energy/calories than any other food group). I thought carbs were OK as long as not over-processed with extra fat - eg mashed potato with butter. Actually I love potatoes so maybe India won't be doing it for me....

IMO it's MIXING carbs and protein that is the reason why there's an obesity epidemic 'cos they can't be digested very well (look at the burgers and sandwiches they're everywhere).

OK there is nothing wrong with carbs if you moderate your intake off them - but the research shows that white carbs - white flour, rice pasta, etc tends to digest really quickly giving you sugar rush which can be bad for health and then can make you hungry quite quickly

This can be improved by either using wholemeal or brown versions which slows down the sugar release and keeps you full for longer - basically this is the premise of the GI diet which is good if you like carbs..

If you read up on diets, low carb tends to have a quicker initial weight loss as I think people have such a high carb diet, losing them results in quite a calorie drop as you often have fat and carbs - so calories quickly reduced.. but after 6 months or so, the weight losses recorded by low carb diets compared to other ones is pretty similar..

From what I understand the problem with carbs when you are dieting is that when you eat them (esp white carbs like white flour, sugar) your body produces insulin which then converts them to fat (simplified). Also once the the sugar has been cleared from your body you then feel very hungry again.

Fat is more calorific but keeps you fuller for longer.

Low GI carbs aren't so bad as the insulin levels are lower and they keep you fuller for longer. I don't agree with ppeatfruit in that adding protein to a carb meal reduces the GI and hence less sugar rush. The obesity epedemic is because people eating big quantities of refined carbs.

But forever they hardly ever eat refined carbs ONLY they're almost always with meat or dairy . The Hay diet is based on separating them and it works for weight loss. Low GI carbs are better but still not with protein.

Thanks for that - will cut down on the carbs and see what happens, so far this week has been good! Also read in paper today about the Dukan diet - low-carb and supposed to be soooo good, but too many rules and I gag at the thought of all that protein, especially meat (maybe that's the secret?). Can't be cheap either.

I think forever is right about the technicalities but also I think that invariably most of us usually eat overly large portions of refined carbs and in addition serve them with high fat foods, eg bread or potatoes with butter, pasta with high-fat sauces. By cutting out such carbs you therefore immediately reduce your calorie intake. Protein also keeps you full for longer than carbs as they take longer to digest, so a protein based weight loss diet is easier to stick to than one that simply works on calorie control because you won't feel hungry so quickly. Essentially though, this is what any weight loss comes from, less calories out than in, however complicated/easy/difficult you want to make the way you achieve that !

Some people are good with high protein but lots are not, we all have differing reactions to foods; i follow my blood type Dr. Peter D'Adamo is the author. it's good for health and weight loss.

ppeatfruit no refined carbs often eaten without protein eg chocolate, cakes, crisps, biscuits... I have done hay diet in past, but doubt that you'd loose weight if eating unlimited carbs even without protein.....

I usually am on the hay (my name should be the same as yrs!) of course too many refined carbs are not good for weight loss OR health.

Going back to the original question.

Refined carbs whether sugar or white flour are empty calories, raises insulin levels, resulting in fat storage and then hunger pangs. IMO (see south beach diet book) its the massive amounts of refined carbs that have resulted in obesity epidemic... (In the south beach diet book, he points out that the traditional Mediterranean diet was high in fats (eg olive oil & nuts) also carbs but it was very unprocessed and before the western diet arrived the locals were not fat and lived long lifes.)

Unprocessed carbs including wholemeal flour based products and starchy vegetables and fruit are important as part of a balanced diet BUT some people find they can loose weight quicker if they don't eat them.