DS2 won't eat from a spoon...in fact...won't eat

[LaTourEiffel]

I'm really struggling with weaning DS2. He is now 7mo3wks and was excl BF until 6 months. He absolutely refuses to take any food from a spoon, and has done from the beginning - very different from DS1 who was like a baby bird. I can get foods in if I make him laugh, but it only gets a few spoonfuls in till he gets cross and its game over. He flaps his arms around like a mad thing if he sees a spoon approaching and its not excitement, full on lip clenching and turning his head away.

So I've been trying a more BLW approach, and he does eat stuff, sweet potato, sausage, pork chop, dairylea sandwiches, tuna sandwich, rice cakes, strawberries, banana, pear etc - he doesn't seem to be obviously fussy about textures or flavours, if he feels like eating, then he'll have a munch, but he doesn't eat often and only in tiny quantities.

For example, today he has had a bit of rice pudding that I conned him into eating - approx 2 teaspoons took about 30 mins to get him to take - half a sausage and half a green bean. Everything else was refused, I've offered breast after every failed eating attempt.

I've read on here the 'food is fun till they're one' theory, but HV (I know ) has said that I need to just cut out daytime BF and get him on meals three times a day.

Lastly, his nappies, we're still getting wet ones, although not as many but the poo quantity seems to have massively tailed off. He only does tiny poos, which are formed into little nuggets, whereas DS1 always had soft poo (but then I'm not sure if that's a seperate problem anyway!).

So, my questions:

1. Should he be on 3 meals a day by 1 year old?

2. If he refuses to eat, should I be offering the breast... I have been, because I don't think he should go hungry, but ultimately, does this mean he's not eating because he knows he'll get breast? Is he too young to have worked this out?

3. What should his poo look like?

4. How can I get him to eat 'wet' food, he won't pick it up, never mind put it in his mouth?

5. Why won't he take a spoon?

Sigh...I'm supposed to be going back to work in 7 weeks time

I dunno, my ds is younger than yours and he's my first. I'm doing BLW and bf also. I don't think ds equates what he does in his highchair to eating iyswim. He's just playing. It's nothing like bf. So I don't think of his milk feeds as instead of food, just different to. Personally I'd just let him lead the way with the solids, keep offering a variety of textures etc and keep offering the breast as well. But as I say I'm no expert at all.

Don't have all the answers, but here goes:

1. DD is one next week eats 3 meals and snacks plus bf during day and night, but started weaning at 4.5 months so may take longer than a year and meals do not have to be huge.

2. Yes feed him. He has only just started weaning and the majority of his nutrients still come from breast milk, sounds like he is quite adventurous from the foods you have mentioned, give him time.

3. Poo depends on what he eats, often you will see it in the poo. If eating lots of banana can get constipated therefore harder pebbly poos. DD's normal poo is mushy. Best to stick to half a banana a time every other day at first. Also ensure he is drinking enough water with food.

4. Try offering something to dip into mushy food e.g. breadsticks, pitta bread, cucumber, toast fingers, rice cakes etc ... may help him get used to texture.

5. The spoon is an alien thing, not soft like a breast and not fun like learning to put foods in your own mouth. You don't need to spoon feed, there are good websites with ideas for baby led weaning and you could try getting him interested by offering him his own spoon whilst you feed him with yours.

PS I went back to work when DD 7 months old (expressed two bottles a day at first) he will most likely do catch up feeds at night to make up for day, he will not starve and may well take alternatives to bf better from someone else as he will know there is no other option.

Like Cies, I can't speak from experience as my DS is younger too, but everything I've read about BLW is that for the first few weeks / months solids are just about exploring food, not necessarily about eating (although that depends on the baby). It is supposed to be some time before babies make the connection between eating solids and satisfying their hunger. I think a lot of babies don't really get as far as properly digesting much until they're 9 months or so IIRC.

I would continue to offer the breast. According to the World Health Organisation's guidelines on infant feeding, mothers should continue 'frequent, on-demand breastfeeding until 2 years of age or beyond', whilst solids should be offered from 6 months onwards. (See p. 9 of this document) They say that between the ages of 6 and 12 months, half their nutrition should come from breastmilk.

The Department of Health agrees with the WHO that breastfeeding should continue beyond the first six months: here. So your HV is advising you to go against the NHS's own guidelines by suggesting you cut out feeds.

I wouldn't worry about 'wet' food. It's not an essential category of nutrients. I'd ditch the spoon as it sounds as if you're finding it stressful and it's not a good use of your time. Let him play with food and I'm sure he'll get the idea eventually. 7 months is very young to be eating 'properly'.

Thanks guys...

Cies, what you say makes sense, and makes me feel better that I'm not starving him or depriving him of nutrients that he should be getting.

AllSheep, thanks for all responses! Re point 3, at the moment, he's only eating pieces of food about the size of my little finger at a time, and he's not had much banana at all - however - he's not drinking any water with his meals - partly because I thought that BM was enough and partly because I've been struggling to get him to take any, so haven't really tried because of not thinking he needed it He treats the cup with the same animosity that he does the spoon. However, this said, I put a splash of apple juice in with the water yesterday and played peekaboo around the cup - I don't know if was the juice or the game - but he thought it was fun and seemed to drink quite a bit (no more than about an ounce though). I'll do this everytime I give him food then and see if I've been dehydrating the poor little guy!

Dips could be complicated, as he likes to grab bowls and throw them rather than investigate their contents, but I guess I could just put a puddle on his highchair tray and see what happens.

I've tried giving him his own spoon, and that's how I've managed to feed him any purees. By poking my spoon down the side of his. I'll keep persevering with this.

If anyone else has any experience of spoon phobic babes, it would be really good to hear from you...

x-posted angel dog, thanks, especially for the link, maybe I'll print something out and take it to the next clinic so that if she asks how weaning is going, I can tell her, and if she argues with what i'm doing, I can at least defend myself.

Re 7 months being young, what would you expect about now.

It was just all so different with DS1, it totally feels like I'm doing this for the first time and I feel quite lost.

Hi LaTourEiffel - I had a very similar issue with my DS now 11months. He loved being spoonfed for about a week, then suddenly refused it completely. This was over Christmas when we were travelling around seeing family, so I decided to stop and try again later. Then I read about BLW and decided to do that rather than threaten DS with spoons when it was clearly not what he wanted. I did get very worried that he didn't have very much to eat (food was mostly played with and occasionally sucked) and rather than dropping bottles, he went through a phase of having and extra one. I really had to force myself to repeat the 'food is fund until they're one' mantra!

He is now eating 'wet' food - although that only started a week or so ago, and like all his changes they were totally sudden. And although he has always taken yoghurt and porridge from a spoon, he has now started taking some soggy cereal, baked beans and cheesy pasta from a plastic spoon or fork.

He does sit down to 3 meals, one snack and one bottle during the day - although the amount he eats varies hugely day to day. He was unimpressed with his tuna sandwich lunch and sausage and cauliflower cheese dinner yesterday, but wolfed down his cheese sarnie and beans on toast today. At 7/8months, he sat down to three snacks more than real meals, and 3 bottles during the day and more of it ended up on the floor than in his stomach.

I'm afraid I can't really help with the poo question as DS has huge variety - pellets to Poonamis.

If he doesn't like the spoon, ditch it. Try to make food times fun and giving milk shortly afterwards isn't a problem at this age. If you're worried, try to leave a half hour 'playing' gap between solids and bf.

But most importantly, ignore that bleeding health visitor - there are good ones out there, but she doesn't sound like one of them!

DS2 has been very anti spoon from day one - started at 6 months, now 8 months. DS1 was spoon weaned without any protest (except over avocado ). I've found it really hard to be patient as progress is much slower with BLW but we do seem to be getting there. I just didn't want food to be a battle so went down the path of least resistance. There are days when I wish he would take the spoon but with BLW you just have to have faith they'll figure it out.

Ds would never touch anything on a spoon, ever. He also was fairly uninterested in any kind of food until he was about 9 months, the only thing I remember him eating enthusiastically is bread. So he was entirely fed on finger foods and honestly it was wonderful. It helped that he was my second and I'd given up taking him to the health visitor much. I'm sure she wouldn't have been very happy with my approach. But hey ho. By the age of one he was having three meals a day, not particularly huge ones. You still have a long way to go until your ds is one, it will happen in time.

Ds is now 4 and eats a wide range of foods. Sometimes he even tries to get me to feed him with a spoon .

Mashed potato can carry all kinds of other stuff in it

DDs favourite is Mashed potato mixed with leek/cod/spinach and cheese. I put a mound of it on her tray and she grabs great fistfuls and eats it by herself. I also load spoons and leave them on the tray for her - sometimes she goes for it -and the mash sticks quite well to the spoon so she doesn't lose it before it reaches her mouth. DS (3) also rather enjoys this mixture and I've also made it in to fishcakes coated in breadcrumbs for us all.

I too have a baby who eats very little solids. I think we have two options - one is to try and make them eat more and the other is to keep on offering food but accept that they aren't eating it because they don't actually need it and they can get what they need from milk. DS had a recent breakthrough with the spoon at around 9 months he found one thing he really liked and started grabbing the end of the spoon and putting it into his mouth - but only for one type of ready-made puree. Before that he loved spoons, but only to play with and wave around.

It's frustrating when they don't eat much, but I think finger foods are easier as you let them get on with it rather than spending time struggling, and the amount consumed is about the same in the end.

Oh, and I shouldn't worry about not drinking much water - unless it's really hot, they won't need much if their diet is still mostly milk.

On a similar vein, see this thread:www.mumsnet.com/Talk/weaning/954968-Slooooow-weaning-please-reassure-me

Personally (although I'm no expert!) I'd expect DS to be playing with foods and putting some in his mouth by 7 months. I wouldn't necessarily expect him to be swallowing much, if any (although he might well do so).

On what to expect at each stage, you might find it interesting to have a look at this site which is a BLW blog - the link is to people commenting about when their babies really got the hang of eating. You will see it varies wildly.

I've had a look at the BLW book and it says:

"By around 9 months, when the need for more nutrients is growing, most BLW babies have developed the skills they need to eat a wide range of family foods, which will provide them with the extra nourishment they need. It's at about this age (although it varies quite a bit from baby to baby) that many BLW parents report their baby seems to be eating more purposefully - as though he instinctively knows that he actually needs this food in addition to his milk feeds."

...

"Some babies start swallowing food almost straight away (at six months), and by nine months they are competent self-feeders who are already beginning to cut down their milk feeds. Other babies start very gradually, showing no real interest in doing more than exploring solid foods until they are well over eight months, and still eating only small amounts at 10 or even 12 months."

On the poo issue, this discussion on the blog might be of interest. Basically there doesn't seem to be anything that their poo 'should' look like; it varies from baby to baby.

Even if you don't want to go down the full BLW route, the book would be worth a read IMO. None of it is rocket science but I think it would be reassuring if you're having difficulty persuading your DS to eat. I managed to reserve a copy of the book through my local library - only cost 60p.

LTE, if you want to print something out & give it to your HV on the issue, an extract from this document might be more user-friendly. It provides basic training for health professionals on baby feeding - session 3 (page 19) covers feeding both solids & milk from 6 months onwards.