So the WHO, Department of Health & FSA says 6 months - is this the gospel now?

[thisxgirl]

I know people can be shot down here for even considering weaning before six months and I understand that this opinion comes from various organisations and the understanding that starting solids early can put excess strain on the kidneys and that there are concerns with regards to developing allergies.

I'm not particularly keen to wean my DS early but have been researching as he approaches 17 weeks next week, in preparation. I read today that (esteemed) zoologist Desmond Morris says the natural age of weaning in our species is at about four months. Few four month olds can hold food and self-feed - maybe they are the most significant markers that your baby is ready for solids - but in some tribal societies they 'kiss-feed' babies, with mother grinding food in her mouth and then passing it into infant's mouth with her tongue. What do you think about this? Do we know better, do you think?

I worry a little about ignoring my DS 'telling' me he wants food because I'm too concerned with listening to official, general advice. I suppose there are more risks with 'early' weaning than with delaying? He's putting his fingers in his mouth all the time, looking at my food, hungry more frequently than he has ever been, has more than doubled his birth weight, can support his head steadily and sit up well when supported, he doesn't thrust his tongue out and there are no histories of food allergy in either family. Am I a bad mother to even consider giving him baby rice or pure home pureed fruit (pear) and vegetables (carrot, parsnips) in a couple of weeks? Do I need more signs? Should I ignore the accumulating signs and conflicting advice and stick to governmental guidelines?

The guidelines are just guidelines. They are mainly there for people who think that's OK to give french fries to your 4 months old or give them tea (MW said she saw that happenning). Nothing wrong with the food you are planning to feed your baby. I managed to wait till 21 weeks (and that was quite good a lot of mum's wean before that, usually around 19).
It all depends of the weight and development of your baby (they are all different). Since, I have seen some small, less alert 6 months old who were happy on milk only. (mine was sitting on her own at 4 months)
Your son seems to be on the way to succesful weaning, especially if he is really interested in food, and can sit up...
Beware though that I delayed my DD weaning because she refused baby rice for 2 weeks .... Time it took me to realised that she hated it not that she wasn't ready to eat, and swap to carrots which she swallowed in no time and asked for more
Try to offer him some food around 19 weeks and see how it goes... if he doesn't like it you can always wait a bit more

My DD is just coming up for 19 weeks and I just started her on baby rice last week. She's been exclusively breastfed since birth and has done really well on it. (She weighed 8 lbs 10 at birth and is now just over 14 lbs). I really wanted to wait a bit longer - felt a huge amount of guilt in fact - but in addition to all the classic 'ready for food' signs (hand-chewing, interest in food etc) she was also starting to get really grumpy at the end of almost every feed - like she was disappointed that there was none left! I would've preferred just to supplement with a formula feed once or twice a day but DD refuses to take a bottle so this wasn't an option.

Anyway, so far so good. She's had baby rice made with expressed breast milk for breakfast every day for the past 7 and really enjoyed it. Today she's had sweet potato for lunch (home-cooked, organic) and enjoyed that too. I'm going to stick to veg and fruits for now and hopefully progress to three meals next week.

One of the other reasons for doing this was to see if it made any difference to her sleeping pattern. She used to sleep really well, only waking once during the night for a good feed and then straight back down again. However, since her 4 month immunisations two weeks ago she's taken to waking every couple of hours and generally seems very wakeful. She's often not really hungry but just doesn't seem to want to sleep. So far, the introduction of solids has made no difference at all.

It's early days but it seems to be going quite well so far. But like I say, my preference would've been to wait and I still feel that way. Introducing solids is also introducing a whole load more things to worry about - is she getting enough? Is anything upsetting her tummy / skin etc? How much milk does she need in addition? How are her bowels? Is everything sterile?

See what I mean..?

I can believe that - like I said, she isn't actually hungry. As you'd expect, a breast will often settle her back to sleep but it's not the reason she wakes up. If it's a developmental stage, when will it stop???!!!

I would not refer to Desmond Morris for paediatric nutrition advice.

As you say, the WHO, the DH, the FSA and actually all the leading public health authorities in the world agree on six months as a recommendation for public health advice. This is based on research you can read and check for yourself if you want to.

It is really no good taking our lead from pre-industrial societies - what they do is not necessarily any more healthy than what we do, and in many developing countries, public health recommendations are a challenge to common practice there, too. You can't observe a different society and say 'hm, that looks unusual and good - should we try it too?'....best way is to do proper research and to see what health outcomes are over time. Look at physiology and development - when does science teach us that babies actually need foods beyond breastmilk? And the research tells us it is about six months.

Individual babies will have individual needs, but there is no evidence that any babies need solids anything like as early as 17 weeks. All the 'signs' you list, OP, are signs of being about four months - not signs of a nutritional need.

Please think again before following Desmond Morris rather than the WHO and the other leading authorities on this

I have a friend who is a paediatric dietition and she told me that the six month guideline is to prevent early weaning with inappropiate foods. She believes weaning at 4 months with sensible food will not do any harm.

I am so sick of the six-month-BLW purists on here who liken early weaning to child abuse.

Most babies may be ready at 4 months - pretty much all will be ready at 6. Weaning too early will do more harm than weaning late.

If you're sure your baby is ready from 4 months then it'll probably be fine - waiting til 6 months will be playing it safe.

I think the other thing is that if people aim for 6 months, then it probably won't matter if some wean a month or two before that. However, if people are aiming for 4 months, then the people weaning a month or two early are likely to be causing problems.

roseability - I think your friend is sort of right, that one of the benefits of the six month guideline is to protect babies who might cope better with 'inappropriate' foods at six months than if they had the same foods at four months....but that is not the reasoning (or the research) behind them.

Weaning at 4 mths - with suitable foods - is likely to be harmless for most babies, true enough...but most babies simply do not need them, and will be better off on breastmilk alone, which is the most appropriate food for this age.

That's not being a purist, is it?

AAARGH SO confused.

I have just come back from baby clinic where I asked the HV about food and night waking with my 29 week old dd. It was clear that she did not really expect anyone to have waited to 6 months before giving food - she kept saying, "she is well over 6 months now and from 6 months they should be getting most of their nutrients from food, not milk, which is doesn't have the right nutrients for them at this age". How could this be if we all waited till 6 months to even start food? (We did, very nearly.)

Apparently I should only be breastfeeding morning and evening now, only food and water during the day. I have no idea how to go about making this happen fast as dd eats only a little very slowly - she enjoys it, and we are doing a sort of non purist blw - but she doesn't eat nearly enough for that to be all she gets - should I really just stop offering her the breast? And will that really stop her waking in the night?

vezzie - I don't understand why your HV is giving you such unusual advice. It is simply not the case that babies should only be bf morning and evening at this age - could you see another HV or ask this one for her evidence for this idea?

The idea that at 6 mths babies should be getting 'most' of their nutrients from food is just wrong, sorry, and this applies to bf and ff babies.

I will try to find a link for you to read and then maybe share with your HV

vwzzie, you can download current DH/NHS weaning guidance for parents here:

www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_4117080

It is quite detailed, and says nothing about 'most nutrients' from food....in fact it stresses the gradual nature of weaning, and says you can drop milk when your baby is eating 'plenty' of solids several times a day you can 'drop a milk feed' or simply continue to breastfeed (no limit given).

It talks about weanlings needing 500-600 mls of milk a day if ff until at least a year, with breastfeeding continuing ad lib.

It is impossible to say exactlty how much volume of breastmilk a baby has, of course, but it would be very hard to get 600 mls of breastmilk in just 2 feeds a day.

So you need a discussion with your HV, I think Why is her advice differing from the national guidance, and is there anything particular about your baby that makes her say these odd things?

Thanks tiktok.

there is nothing unusual that I know of about my baby - today her weight is on exactly th 50th centile. She has never had any health problems. (We are even lucky enough to have missed all the recent horrible bugs - so far.)

The HV has actually written down only "advised to up food intake". This seems more reasonable than what she said. But I am not sure how - if I offer her food 3 times a day and she eats till she has had enough (she has never refused anything, but often does not eat a lot) what more can I do? The HV said don't offer the breast in the day, only water - is that right?

Sorry, I am in a bit of a flap about this - probably being very silly and pfb but I feel better when I actually look at my daughter who looks very well and energetic.

Ask the HV again what she meant - to really not give milk in the day? That is such odd advice....babies need milk in the day at this age, for the calories and for all the other nutrition she will get from breastmilk.

You would not have to look far to find an HV who would tell you that all was well, and you should just carry on doing what you are doing...maybe you can get a second opinion?

Thanks Tiktok, maybe I will ask her again, or someone else.
The trouble is... I find them so hard to talk to, so patronising. When you ask questions like "why" and "what if" they just repeat themselves.

None of my NCT friends have heard this advice... but they all seem to think I should be offering dd formula in the day rather than bm as I will be going back to work in January. Do I really have to end all day time feeds now and give her formula instead? If she needs milk (as everyone but this HV seems to thinks she does) can't I just give her the milk I already have for her?

I am feeling freaked out and tearful today probably for no good reason and I am just fixating on all this confusion when I should just say blow it and carry on following my nose.

Sorry about hijacking this thread, very impolite.
It seems like no one wants me to bf my dd in the day any more and everyone has a different reason why not. I have never heard this before and I spent the weekend with my mum and my sister who have had 5 children between them and they seemed to think everything I was doing was perfectly normal and ok.

It is common practice here in the Midlands to be told by the HV not to give the baby milk in the day once you have started solids.
Morning and night bottles or feeds only!

It is also common practice to not listen to your HV

vezzie, My HV tried to insit that ds2 should be on 3 solid meals a day when he was 26 weeks + 3 days which I thought was shocking considering the advice not to start weaning until 26 weeks.

Your baby will let you know if she is still hungry after a feed and IMO it is best to be lead by her. You don't want to end up getting into a power struggle with her over food. Provided her weight gain is fine and and she seems happy enough with the status quo just let her dictate the rate she starts eating solid food.

Vezzie everything you are doing is perfectly normal and ok. Please ignore your HV. She is talking out of her bottom.