When to finish a meal?

[NicknameAlreadyTaken]

My DD is 13mo. And I still BF her.
When she's hungry I put her in her highchair, give her some food on her plate so that she could eat it with a spoon herself, give her some veg slices to hold, a cup, etc.
She likes to mess with all that by putting her veg in a cup, demands to be given a ball to put in a cup too, etc.
That and feeding herself from a spoon keeps her entertained for a short while, but then she will start fidgeting, looking around for her toys, etc.
If I let her go and play at this point, she will keep coming back for another bite in between playing. Which means that she's not yet finished with a meal. And she becomes really upset if i take the food away too early thinking that she's done when she's too busy playing and is not coming back for a while.
But if i try and keep her seated till she's full (not taking more food or takes very small amounts) it will be so difficult for me to keep her there. I tried reading to her (which so far works the best), telling her stories, singing songs, playing some games like hiding her food under a napkin, watching telly with her, etc But still she will be noticeably uncomfortable, although enjoying it but too eager to leave the table and play or in the case of telly too busy watching to eat anything.

So, what do I do - keep her there till she's full or let her go and play?
And how do I entertain her in the former case and avoid upsetting her though make sure meals are not transforming into a non-stop-all-day-long feeding in the latter case?
I don't think that all-day-long munching is her way just because she's either eating or playing. She's fine eating when I hold her - this is normally the way she snacks as she will leave her food on the floor the moment I put her down next to her toys/book/anything of an interest for her.

All day long snacking is very compatible with being a toddler. I sit DS in his highchair and he eats until he's bored and starts fidgetting or chucking it on the floor. Then I get him out but leave his plate of food in his playroom on a low table at his reach. Every so often he will go back to it and eat a bit more.

I think I might be misled by babycare books which say that you can't really leave food that is normally kept in the fridge (like any hot meal food) at room temperature for longer than an hour or so especially if they started earting it.
Or does it only apply to tiny babies?

Although not sure I would enjoy eating my meal after it stayed on a plate for an hour. Pulely for aesthetic reasons and the changed taste.

DD is the same (14mo). She nibbles and eats a bit but when it starts going on the floor I know she's had enough. But she hasn't because she'll gobble anything of mine she can pinch.

The last few days I've been ill so pegged out on the sofa dying all day. Having struggled into the kitchen to hunt out food for her, I've then been lying on the sofa holding the plate out like a human buffet and she has eaten loads more by being able to come and pick when she wants. Am seriously considering a snack box now.

She still drinks loads of milk though and no matter what, I can't limit it. I've tried milk before, after, during, not at all etc etc and it hasn't made any difference to her eating. she'd live off milk and pinchings from us if she could.

Yes, leaving a plate for her to eat herself seems like a better idea than trying to keep her in a highchair when she wants to play.
nappyaddict, is your DS only eating or is he playing with the food you leave on his plate? Or do you not leave him alone with it?
I think one of the reasons I don't leave her the plate and try to keep it next to me and let DD come to ME for another bite is that i'm afraid to get spaghetti bolognese all over the carpet.

Right...
Snack box is becoming more of an option to consider for me! (posted another question on a separate thread and got it as an answer there too )

EyeballsintheSky, hope you get better soon, although sometimes bad events give us good ideas!

If it's something with sauce or gravy that he will make a mess with I will stay with him otherwise I just leave him to it. Things like chicken, lamb, beef, fish fingers, pasta, rice, potato wedges etc I will eat cold myself so have no problem with DS eating them cold. If it's something like spag bol which wouldn't be very nice cold then I will take it away after an hour and DS has open acess to his snack bag anyway which has fruit, vegetable sticks, unsalted nuts, dry puffed wheat cereal, hard boiled egg, orange fruit loaf, fruity teacakes, rice cakes, crackers, cheese, cheesy flapjack, veggy muffins, bits of chicken/lamb/beef etc

Wow, nappyaddict! What a choice he has!
Thanks a lot, I'll try and make a similar box for my DD.
Although anticipate a few problems as she likes taking things out of boxes and putting other things in instead.

wow - is this a common thing then? I was going to say the opposite and suggest that being in the highchair for mine means that she knows shes going to eat and not play or watch telly etc - just as my 5 year old knows that we dont have toys or books at the table.

Bu then mine is happy to sit in the high chair and eat and eat and eat I like to encourage them to eat in the same timeframe as we do as well - especially helpful when they start school ro go to nursery and they only have half an hour to eat their lunch.

I hate it when MN reinforces the fact that I'm really old school when I like to think otherwise tsk...

I honestly don't know, giantkatestacks!
I like order in everything but my DD seems to have her own understanding of what an order is . And i feel it's wrong (for me) to eat not at the table or all day long as opposed to three times a day, to have a ball or a book on the table to play with while eating, to put your hands in food and then spread it all over your head, to take all pasta/raisins/cookies/whatever out of their box and put them all over the room, etc. But it all seems right for her.
Of course, it's easier when things fall into the habit due to routine repetition. But when it's against the baby's likes, i'd say let it be the way she needs it and you'll be able to put it into the right order later, when she's able to understand why things are to be in a certain way. Well, at least I hope it's the way it works cause i haven't been there yet and don't know what age is appropriate.

I don't just eat 3 times a day and I'm never always hungry at exactly the same times each day, so I don't expect DS to either. When I'm hungry for lunch I accept they he might not be that hungry and might only eat a small amount but will want to come back to it later. In the same way that if my mum cooks me dinner at 5pm I usually only eat half of it before I'm full and then later on I will eat the rest when I'm hungry for it. I believe letting him choose when he eats is teaching him good eating habits and how to recognise when he is hungry rather than just eating because its 12pm, 5pm or whatever.

Yes thats true nappyaddict in that if you eat like that it will work like that but equally if you eat at more set times then you and the dcs will be hungry then because its x hours since you have eaten - and you have snacks in between anyway. Your body starts to expect to eat -and theres still a variation in how hungry you and the dcs are - sometimes they will want seconds and others they will just have a few mouthfuls and be done and thats where the recognising hunger comes in for me - stopping eating when you're full.

Dcs who graze all day are one of my real bugbears - but its only because I was raised to eat at meal times with set snacks in between - you have to move to set mealtimes eventually or they struggle a bit at school anyway...

I think you misunderstood me. IMO you can still prepare a meal that everyone sits down to eat together but you accept that they may only have a few mouthfuls and be full and then may want to come back it later on. Just because they only have a few mouthfuls and finish for the time being it doesn't mean that's it then until the next snack or meal time. They can continue with it when they decide they want it again.

I just do for DS what I do myself. I know a lot of the time I will sit down for my dinner and get full when I've only eaten half. I don't then throw it away cos I know I will probably be hungry later and can eat it then.

Thats interesting nappyaddict - I always think that if I sit down for my dinner and get full when I've eaten half then either I've given myself too much (happens quite a lot ) or I'm just not hungry and we will in fact just wait until the next snack/ meal time.

DS isnt allowed to keep coming back to his meal - if he gets down from the table (which is perfectly fine) then he's done...

I tend to eat little and often and find that I get full very quickly but will be hungry again not long after which is why when I get full I still save the rest of my meal to eat later on. It is supposedly better for you to eat 6 small meals a day rather than 3 large ones so I try to go by that for me and DS.

Yes, they say it's better and healthier (at least for adults) to have 5 smaller meals than 3 big ones.

In my pre-baby life I would have 3-4 meals during the day, I would eat when i'm hungry enough, though trying to leave 3-4 hours between the meals otherwise I would end up eating all day long and feeling both full and hungry at the same time.
When you have meals at set times, your body goes into routine and expects a meal at certain time of the day provided that you get up at the same time every day. But I wouldn't push myself into eating at a set time when i'm not yet hungry enough. So, instead of eating half a portion like nappyaddict does (and that's a great thing, by the way! and the whole family can sit at the table together though not everyone will be eating whole portion, just brilliant!), i would wait and eat a full portion later.

But it doesn't work now, as I've been hungry all the time since my DD was born ! Some people say it's because of breastfeeding. And I also tend to eat when DD has a meal.
So, I have lots of snacks in between meals.
But on the other hand, when I can't have a snack (like when we go to drs and spend too much time there or go for a walk and DD doesn't want to go home soon enough, etc) this nagging hunger stops (and it's really more of a desire to nibble at something rather than a real hunger), so i'd prefer to not eat between meals if i could!
It also depends on what you eat (how your body reacts to this food with blood sugar level, whether it's heavy and difficult to digest food, etc) and often thirst is mistaken for hunger.

As for DD, I leave snacks for her around, but she will often eat them only when I pick her up and offer her something, otherwise she just drops a snack when she can go and have something to play with instead.

And overall, i think that eating at set times puts things into routine and order, whereas grazing satisfies immediate needs, so it's difficult for me to compare them, they are just two different things with their own pros and cons.
On one hand, it should be good to show your DCs good eating habits, but on the other hand, they won't remember a thing from their pre-3-year-old-or-so life. I don't want to say "so why bother", i just want to say that maybe it's more appropriate for a bit older age, when they will be able to understand reasons behind good eating habits and will therefore be able to learn something from them rather than have them as a habit they don't understand and appreciate.
Also, i don't know whether grazing is a good thing, as sometimes you will be hungry because you are bored or sad, which is not the best time to eat.

So, i'd go for meals as opposed to grazing but only when DD is hungry as opposed to set times. Also because her sleeping/waking/feeding schedules are too irregular for set time meals. But I will still be offering her snacks when she seems hungry but is not yet likely to be up for a big meal (like when she had a meal just an hour ago and can't be hungry enough for another one)

As for eating after leaving the table. Yes, it doesn't feel right for me to continue feeding DD after she leaves her highchair (i think it's only due to our own eating habits and upbringing) but i still do it as i think it's more important now to satisfy her needs rather than instill any good eating habits because (as i already mentioned) she won't yet understand why she's being forced into a certain way of behaving.

Psychologists have found that eating habits learned early on play a big part later on in life though. Perhaps from the start we should be trying to teach our DC as best we can the good eating habits of eating when we are hungry rather than eating because of what time dictates, eating 5-6 smaller meals/snacks instead of 3 large meals and nothing in between and stopping when we are full not when the plate is empty. We also have to allow for the fact that it may not all go to plan and we can't place too many expectations on them as they are just doing what toddlers do. We should explain to them why they should do a certain thing from babyhood but we can't expect them to fully understand and cooperate until they are older. If you do it from the beginning it will just be the norm and gradually it will sink in and it will all click into place but until then it's all about compromise isn't it.

Sounds almost like an accusation, nappyaddict!
And I'm not going to argue with you, I'm no expert. All you say sounds sensible and reasonable. Thanks for a good summary!

I agree completely about the stopping when we are full and eating when we are hungry but disagree about the 5-6 meals unless you plan to homeschool etc.

In fact I would go out on a controversial limb and say that the biggest children I know are also the biggest grazers.

I go for 3 large meals and a banana/nuts/dried fruit etc in between...

An accusation? >

GKS - grazing and snacking is the best way to keep you feeling energetic and to prevent large sugar lows and rises. You do have to watch how much you are consuming as it is easy to eat too much without realising but as long as you are eating healthily then it isn't usually a problem.

It is also perfectly compatible with school cos they usually have a morning and afternoon break where they can eat the other 2 "meals." This could be something as simple as fruit and yoghurt, dry cereal, a wrap, bagel or crackers or perhaps cold pasta or rice salad.

mine isnt allowed to eat though at school - he gets to choose when in the morning he can have his milk and biscuit (to encourage them to eat when hungry and to make up for kids who havent had breakfast) and theres a piece of fruit in the afternoon but they wouldnt be allowed to eat anything else (its compulsory school meals iyswim - no packed lunches).

My friend's school was like that GKS but she went in and spoke to somebody as her DD was feeling very lethargic and fruit at snack time just wasn't giving her enough of an energy boost. In the end they let her send crackers (instead of a biscuit) and those snack cheeses or a yoghurt to be eaten with the fruit. They said as long as it could be eaten as quickly and easily as the biscuit/fruit and wasn't messy to eat she could take something extra.

It's an important bit "You do have to watch how much you are consuming as it is easy to eat too much without realising". Is it as easy for a baby/toddler to overeat while grazing?
If yes, then this could be the reason why the biggest kids giantkatestacks knows are the biggest grazers.
This is also my only argument against grazing, that it is too easy to eat for wrong reasons, due to low mood, in front of a telly, when bored, when eating too quickly, when food is not healthy, etc

Using my experience with DS I think it is less easy for a baby to overeat. I think they notice the feelings of getting full better than we do as when you get older you sometimes tend to eat just because you fancy something "nice" but younger children don't really have that freedom - they only get to eat what we offer them. As long as you don't give them access to unhealthy foods then overeating isn't really a problem - they aren't going to become fat unless they eat foods with a high amount of sugar, fat or calories.