When to 'Up' meals?

[MrsMagooo]

Hello ladies,

I should know what I'm doing as I have a DD who's 2.6 but my brain has turned to mush lol!!

I started weaning my DS just under 2 weeks ago at just over 21 weeks, I realise this is under the 'guideline' age of 6 months but IMO he honestly did seem ready & he is loving his food.

At the moment he has breakfast (pear or apple mixed in with baby breakfast) & then lunch (so far have tried him on carrot, sweet potato, brocolli carrot & potato, apple & pear. (I make all the purees myself)

Anyway I digress - my question is when would it be ok to 'up' to 3 meals a day??

DS is enjoying his food, he eats very well & still has bottles (he also still wakes in the night to be fed hence we wondering when I can increase to 3 meals) but as I have started weaning before the guidelines I'm unsure as to when it would be ok to increase his meals.

Sorry for the waffle - any advice welcome

But do you think that is habit or because he needs it nutrition-wise? If we did CC with your dad would he start sleeping through?

lol. has your mum tried shushing and patting him, wen?

I think pu/pd is the way forward there..

you could tell your mum next time your Dad wakes to just give him water, he will soon get bored when he realises that yummy milk isn't forthcoming and start to sleep thru ;)

I think it's cos he needs a fag tbh.
But DS will have a whole banana after his dinner and he doesn't sleep. He definitely needs at least one feed during the night. He did a nine-hour stretch the other night, had a good feed, and then another good feed when we got up. I think when he gets more active he will sleep better, he'd had a busy day that day.

The thing is all babies are different. What one baby needs to be full won't be what another baby needs to be full in the same way that adults all have different appetites. In fact neenz has shown this with her twins. One twin eats loads, the other not so much but both are full enough for them to sleep through the night.

This is my personal opinion but I really don't believe solids have anything to do with sleep. I've read that there are several natural "awakenings" a night (as there are with adults...you wake slightly but go back to sleep) and it depends whether the baby then gets back to sleep or not. If they don't easily get back to sleep then once they are awake once offered milk they are awake enough to be hungry for it, in the same way as if I woke in the night I might get hungry once I'd fully woken. But it isn't hunger causing them to wake. I don't have any scientific studies at hand to back that up, although I didn't make it up, I did read it.
The thing I think you need to be careful with is thinking the 2 are linked and then over feeding in an attempt to "make them sleep". That is the thing I like about BLW....it is impossible for me to over feed him. I'm sure some of you will say it's impossible to over feed with spoon feeding but I found (until he went all anti spoon on me) that it was possible to get really worrying amounts into him, really fast.

My post wasn't specifically aimed at trying to get DS to sleep through - it was about when to safely up to 3 meals a day. Yes it would be lovely if a 3rd meal helped him to sleep at night but I know that, that is unlikely.

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that DS is just one of these babes that wakes in the night & nothing I do or don't do will change that.

Well, I thought I was being balanced and open minded, but clearly not. Some responses to that personal attack on the previous page - thanks, btw.

My son uses his own spoon. He's 7 months, but obviously uses a spoon with help, plays with it a lot, and he doesn't get a knife or fork to play with as he would blind himself! So my puree fed baby has had cutlery from the start.
So my underweight DS - is the answer then to start supplementing with formula and let him not eat carbs through BLW? Surely not!
And as for 'it's the parents who don't like it', dead right in this case particularly because of the sanctimonious, condescending and patronising attitudes I've witnessed!

'it's a bit rich to put a time limit on something that advocates having no time limit and then blaming it for failing.' Was that about me? Missed that completely.

ROFL at being accused of being aggressive by someone who uses the aggressive, offensive word 'bullshit' to describe something I've said. Lovely mature behaviour!

I'm beginning to wish I hadn't posted

O Essie DS plays with his spoon too - gums it with a big grin on his face

MrsMagoo I totally agree, some babies will sleep thru from really little and some won't. There are some things you can try, like making sure they're well rested and have an early enough bedtime and a nice calming wind down routine but some will just wake in the night. I do believe though that this is a sleep pattern thing and not a hunger thing. (Not that I thought you were saying it was)

Yeah, I do loaded spoons of yoghurt for DS, so he can play with them, and when he's got better control he can have a knife and fork too.
Essie, I don't think anyone on MN would suggest supplementing with formula as a first step, and what do you mean 'let him not eat carbs'?

Oh, I've finally changed back from my christmas name btw, twas wenceslas.

you've missed the point, essie. by using the word bullshit i wasn't pretending, unlike people who type etc. and your tongue in cheek joke...

your post wasn't balanced and open-minded, imo, it was totally kneejerk because you've met people you don't like. although why someone would be put off something that could be good for your child because you've met some parents you don't like... well, your child will miss out on a lot in the future if you have to like everyone who does dance classes, music classes etc. it's hardly a criterion for weaning.

and yes, the time limit comment was directed at you, complaining that he took half an hour to eat a bit of broccoli and then didn't eat the stalk. again, it misses the point that his eating a piece of broccoli will have been an experience in and of itself, quite apart from the calories. calories will come from milk, food is complementary for the first six months.

i know quite a few vegetarian puree-fed and blw babies, by the way, there's no need for him to have meat. but if he does... there will come a time when you'll have to watch him eat it with his fingers because... all babies learn to self-feed eventually. you are just delaying the inevitable.

"So my underweight DS - is the answer then to start supplementing with formula and let him not eat carbs through BLW? Surely not!"

i've got no idea what you're talking about here. if you're bfing, feed him more often, and let him eat carbs and fats through BLW if you want to, spoon it in if you don't. nut butters are particularly good for this by the way, you can get cashew nut butters at holland and barrett if you're not on peanuts yet. obviously cream and cheese, avocado and slugs of olive oil etc also help. it is a worry having a skinny child, and wanting to make every morsel count, but it really makes no odds how the morsel is delivered.

mrsmagoo, it's unfortunate that people have come and turned this into a weird blw/puree fight, just because mrs jamin nicely pointed out that the bulk of the puree-feeders on MN hang out on one particular thread. did you see it, i'm sure they'll give you good insight if you don't feel you've had that already.

Macaco, your theory about it not being hunger that makes them wake sounds very sensible. I think that is prob right, but if they wake and then think 'ooh I feel a bit hungry' they might cry for a feed when otherwise they might settle themselves. Gina Ford's routines are all based on getting enough milk into a baby in the day to make them sleep at night (plus self-settling techniques) and it worked for us.

You are also right that BLW means your LO will not eat too much - my worry is they eat too little, esp early on.

MrsMagoo, it was me who turned this into a sleep through the night conversation. I am a bit obsessed by it but I do have twins don't you know! They do sleep through mostly anyway.

Aitch, I think you are being unfair on Essie. There are lots of people who spoonfeed who feel like they are looked down on by BLWers. I think this thread has shown that actually BLWers are quite oblivious to that fact. So when Essie comes in all guns blazing you are taken aback because you had no idea people felt like that. But she is just frustrated because her little boy won't eat and is very small. BLW hasn't worked for them so she feels annoyed when BLWers talk about it as if it is the answer to everyone's weaning problems when it is not.

BTW, at what age do you think most people start BLW? Aitch you said 50% of people on your thread do purees and blw anyway, and many have said they started on purees and then went to blw. My two are going more onto blw now but they are 8.5mo and want to be more independent and have the dexterity they need. But blw at 6mo did not work for us.

no no no, neenz, you are quite mistaken. i said i reckoned about 50% used spoons. not eat purees. i was just responding to the inevitable 'but how do they eat yoghurt?' question.

some people's children have hated purees and are forced to move onto BLW, but that's not the majority.

look, if i'm honest i think if people feel 'looked down upon' or 'embattled' by BLWers then it's their problem. i don't think anyone gives a flying organic fig on here if someone does purees or BLW. if you feel wonky about it (and there is No Reason why you should) then don't take it out on people who do BLW and are perfectly happy doing so.

this was a thread started by someone looking for puree advice, after her OP the thread went thus.

By MrsJamin on Mon 12-Jan-09 19:10:00
If you're spoon-feeding I'd go really slowly as it is possible to over-do purees and the result is really uncomfortable constipation. I offered food 3 times a day from 6 months (did BLW) but so little went in as he was self-feeding, there was no danger he'd eat more than his tummy could handle. Perhaps this bump would get puree-weaners attention - you may want to try the puree weaners thread for help.

"By MrsMagooo on Mon 12-Jan-09 19:12:25
I am spoon weaning yes - generally he's pretty good & will turn his head away when he doesn't want anymore.

Oppss sorry have I posted on the wrong thread?? blush

By MrsJamin on Mon 12-Jan-09 19:41:39
no you haven't posted on the wrong thread, it's just that more people might see your request if you add it to the general puree weaning chat thread - i'd wager a guess that the majority of posters on the weaning threads do BLW so you might be best off asking in that particular thread.

By MrsMagooo on Mon 12-Jan-09 19:51:16
Thank you"

see? no problem there. all was fine until you, neenz, came on really angrily talking about a 'blw militia' (i mean, fgs).

i don't think this is a blw thing, tbh, i think that you're just pissed off that this particular board on this particular site doesn't reflect your weaning choices. but the rest of the world and the internet does, so i'd suggest that you could just settle for that and spare a thought for blwers for whom this is one of the few places they can talk to each other. you're an embattled MAJORITY, how about remembering that?

but neenz that's where I disagree completely with GF and the like that you need to "get enough into them" during the day. From what I understand it doesn't matter how much they have, if they wake and wake enough not to immeadiatley self settle then if they are offered a feed then they will probably take it. i.e they are in an alert enough state that they feel hunger again or the act of feeding is soothing and helps them to enter a sleep state again.

I have found this to be true personally in that the times DS has woken have had absolutley no connection to what he's consumed during the day. I think there have been some studies done but I don't know where. Healthy Sleep habits Happy Child is very interesting about this.

oh, and you're not going onto BLW at 8.5months. you're going onto finger food, just as one would expect at that age if they've been started on purees.

the whole point of BLW is that you don't get to decide how much food they eat at 6 months, they do. that's why it's ridiculous to say that blw didn't work for us etc etc etc, blw means letting the child decide. what people should say is 'blw wasn't for us because i didn't want my child to decide when it came down to it'.

which is FINE, particularly when you have twins and you think that their eating has a bearing on how well they sleep. or if you have things to do and you just want to know that your child has eaten what you think they need to eat and get on with the rest of your day. but that's not how everyone wants to do it, that's all.

This is still going off the topic a bit but I think it's also worth noting that a baby can just be thirsty during the night and wake for that. Of course when they're young they've no way of telling us this but I never had a problem offering milk just in case. IMO it's a bit unfair to ignore a baby waking when you don't know what it is that is causing it to wake. I know if I wake up thirsty I go back to sleep a lot quicker when I take a drink of water than if I have to lie awake feeling thirsty - whether my husband pats my bum or not!

most older babies who wake in the night for a feed do so out of habit or for comfort or so they can get back to sleep rather than hunger imo.

I didn't post about waking in the night though Nappy.

I agree with nappyaddict - my dd doesnt demand feeding until about 6.30am and some days she can wake up at 5am - during the night she doesnt wake for hunger either - atm its mainly for cold so have had to put the heating back on...

you can often see it in the way they continue to wake after having a cold or teething - it becomes habit...

mrsmagoo, this is what happens on MN, conversations move on. don't take it personally, your OP is long gone i'm afraid, since about the third post.