Food & sleep: 23wk old still feeding (BF) in night - I'm exhausted - will weaning help?

[Mazzletov]

I don't know whether this should be in the weaning category as it's really more about sleep. I've been trying to reduce night wakings ever since DD was born, aware that this is the area that really makes or breaks our quality of life. I've followed advice to keep the room very dark, keep night interventions to a minimum, put her down awake, etc.

Around 12 weeks old we seemed to be heading for a fairly regular pattern of 1 night feed, around 4am, with no other wakings. Then I decided to try and avoid feeding her at all. For 2 nights she didn't feed but was very wakeful (probably rather confused!). Then she hit a growth spurt and I had a milk plunge, so we had 2 weeks of very frequent feeding day & night to get things back on track. since then, there's been the odd "1 feed" night but they are rare. A few weeks ago she returned to feeding at least 3 times in the night! Then I realised it was teething pain, relieved by hard suckling - Bonjela now sometimes resolves a waking, but not always.

The best we seem able to do these days is 3 wakings between 10pm and 7am, with 1 needing a feed. I am SO tired!

Questions I'm asking myself, which I'd welcome help with:

Is she genuinely HUNGRY? We used to have a guaranteed undisturbed evening from 7-10, but now she often wants to squeeze an extra feed in there. Also in the day she seems to want feeding at least once more than she used to. So I guess she could be.

Is she THRIVING? Yes, though having been born HUGE (9lb 4) she's crashed down through the growth charts in recent months (now just under 14lb). She had to level out eventually as her genes are not "big" and she couldn't stay in the 95th percentile forever ... HV & GP agree she's just fine.

Is she READY for solids? She holds her head very well and sits very straight with a little support.

Questions I really have no idea about and would LOVE your help with:

1. Will solids help my sleep at all, or am I kidding myself?

1. If I want to go for BLW, what do I start with? Baby rice doesn't seem to meet the criteria of grabbable finger food, but I can't see she's ready for chewing actual food. (I give her frozen carrot sticks to help teething pain and she chomps away until they're well melted and rubbery with no sign of them actually getting EATEN.)

1. "They" tell me 23 wks is fine to start down this road, but I am totally bloody minded about her having the healthiest guts ever and I'm not sure if I trust them. Help!

Se may genuinely be hungry, thing is at this age she may not be ready for solids.
It's a tough call.
I'm not sure what you know about solids and the gut so I'll explain.
Basically, the gut is permeable, until the baby's gut is nonpermeable any food they are given will leak through.
All babies are ready for solids by 26 weeks, some babies are ready by 17 weeks.
D you think you could wait another three weeks just to be sure? If you can, then please try, it could possibly stop gut/digestion/allergy problems.
If not, I'd suggest staring by food play, the experts reckon that a baby will not physically eb able to sit up, pick up, put in mouth, chew and swallow until their belly is ready so I'd try that, that way f they eat it's likely they are ready, purees are pretty much worthless at this age, as f they can swallow shoving it in their mouth is similar to force feeding, have you tried aitch's blog?.
I have to pop off for a while, but will eb back soon so ask anything you want that I may know.

Just my point of view (not definitive!)

1. No they won't, if it does it's probably a coincidence. My DS (as well as most babies it seems) went 'backwards' after nearly sleeping through, it's mostly a combination of teething, light mornings, growth spurts and just needing more milk because they are getting bigger. Babies continue to wake in the night for some time, especially if you are breastfeeding.
2. I guess you just need to give it a try - my DS is 5 months and I'm going to give him steamed carrot and brocoli for his first meal. You just keep giving them different things until some of it goes down. If you haven't looked at it already, www.babyledweaning.com is very useful.
3. I think our LOs are exactly the same age - it does seem very close now but I'm going to hold out for a few extra weeks. I think otherwise I'll think I was mad for actually wanting to start weaning - it's a lot easier to just feed milk! I do have a lot of sympathy as the effects of long-term sleep deprivation are not pleasant - but it won't last forever, just try and sleep when your LO does and think "this too will pass".

Indeedy, I almost resorted to formula (can't believe I'm actually saying that) a few weeks ago but researched the gut thing and a good job too. Why don't they explain these things properly to new mums??! I am happy to hold out as long as is necessary. If the recommendation is 26 weeks then I can wait. HVs told me "6 months/24 weeks/who knows?! You decide. 23 weeks is fine ..." but I wasn't sure if I should believe them.

Thanks for the links and encouragement. DD has only ever slept for 3 x 30 min naps in the day, and yesterday & today she didn't bother with the morning one which is the only one I can really join in with. I hope this isn't a new pattern .... zzzzzzzz!

You say its teething pain which is relived by hard sucking. Have you thought about a dummy?
Ive never been keen on dummies but i was in a similar situation a month ago and desperate.
I gave DS a dummy and it settled him straight away i couldnt believe the peace. I know dummies arent for everyone but it worked for me.

Thanks for idea but DD has had dummy for sleep (useful sleep association in my view!) since she was really small as she was a total suck-monster, it doesn't seem to make contact in the way she needs for the pain relief.

They don't explain because they are taught rough guides and don't know themselves.
Gld you're willing to wait, if you really feel you can't then starting with food play LO will wait til they're ready anyway

Sorry also meant to say you're at prime growth spurt time, shouldn't last too long, and congrats

Hi there,
I faceed the same dilema (r. your question 1) and ended up weaning (very very half heartedly!) 2 weeks earlier than recommended. DD's sleep did not improve at all (exclusively breastfed and feeding 3 or so times a night). Introducing solids made no difference at all. DD hardly ate anything so this is hardly suprising. Whilst I don't regret these 2 weeks (mainly as she didn't really eat anything) I would say don't do it just for sleep reasons.
My DD (now nearly 12 months) started to sleep through at about 10 months old, so she got there in the end. It also took until about this time to get any substantial amounts of food inside her!
Hope it works out fr you. It's exhausting I know!

hi! we're at 27 wks and in a v similar situation, have been trying food for a week or so now and it has made b*gger all difference to sleep, and now we have lots more mess to clean up! i'd just wait!

Well ladies I'm going to really rock the boat here. I have three children two older ones and a 6 month old. I weaned the older two at 3 months (as was the guidelines at the time) and they both slept through at this time. I held out with number three as per the new guidelines, but he's a big boy, very hungry and HV said to hold out until 20 weeks. I held out until 23 weeks and he is absolutely mad for solids - and he sleeps 11 to 12 hours now for the first time.

So in my experience, and I do seem to be exception, it made all the difference to their sleep in all three children.

tellyaddict, my DS2 is nine weeks old, sleeps through about50% of the time atm, both my other DC's slept through by about 3/4 months, I think some babies just naturally sleep through quicker and yours probably would have done without the solids iyswim.

1. you're kidding yourself. solids really have no bearing on night wakings. my almost 8 month old still wakes 2 hourly at night despite eating like a horse!

2.) blw is all about a baby eating what they can pick up by themselves and get down them. by all means give her some finger food to play with, but don't expect her to eat much,.

3.) stick with your instinct and wait, well, that's what I'd do

According to my sleep bible, "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Dr Marc Weissbluth (paediatrician who has done extensive sleep research in children), feeding and night waking are not linked. Yes a baby will wake when it's hungry, but all people wake or almost wake at night, so you have to be sure that your feeding the baby when hungry, and not feeding because she has woken, iyswim.

Is the baby still in your room? If yes, then moving to another room may help, but DON'T use a monitor unless the baby is in another wing of the house or something. If she needs you, you WILL hear her. (Unless you go to bed drunk!)

It's possible that you are going to the baby too soon. ALL babies wake at night. My 1yo still wakes at night, but she snuffles around and sometimes wails loudly and then goes right off again. I only use a baby monitor if she's ill and it's been that way since she was a couple of months old.

One feed at night is "normal" (whatever that is) between 6 and 9 months. Almost no babies need night feeding after 9 months. If you go to the baby when she is not hungry, then you reinforce the waking habit and she will continue to "need" you to help her get back to sleep. What I aimed for, was to feed her when hungry, but let her get back off to sleep on her own at any other time. I was breastfeeding when I realised I was jumping up to feed too eagerly, thinking "If I run in and feed, then she'll not wake properly and go straight back to sleep". In fact, when I tried giving a bottle, to see how much she'd actually feed, she was having an ounce or two. Not really hungry at all. Decided to ignore all but proper crying and she was "sleeping through" after two nights. I think that was at around 5 months.

Incidentally, if you're co-sleeping, then none of the above applies. Babies who co-sleep often feed in the night, but do not develop a "waking habit" because of the sleep arrangements.

solids won't help, it'll just make more work for you in the day. DS2 is 7.5mths and still feeds at night, regardless of how well he's eaten in the day.

I started DS1 earlier than i should, because he was breastfeeding every hour, day or night. It made no difference, and he also ended up dairy intolerant (may have been my fault, maybe not) which he's only just grown out of.