Milk vs Solids, DD with slow weight gain and (milk feeding issues), unsure as to best way to proceed...

[designerbaby]

Hi all,
My DD milk feeding issues have been well documented on other (slightly more hysterical) threads, but in short has been progressively more difficult to feed from 3 months onwards, then rejected the boob, so gave up BF and offered bottles, which she initially took better, but then started refusing those too, dropped down to 2-3oz feeds 5 times a day with much screaming etc. etc. Weight gain slowed to practically nothing for 2 months as she plummeted from the 50th to the 9th centile (she was on the 98th at birth and tracked the 75th fro the first 3 months).

Anyway, took her to GP who has arranged a paed. referral (still waiting...) and prescribed gaviscon which seems to have helped no end, and told me to go for it on the solids (contrary to HV advice who told me to stop and just concentrate on milk ).

DD is now 6 1/2 months, and finally drinking sensible amounts of milk, but often filling up on it so she won't take much in the way of solids. If I give her the solids first she won't take milk afterwards...

Having spent so many months trying to get her to drink, I'm loath to now try and reduce her milk to encourage her to eat solids... not sure what to do for the best!?

Her day looks roughly like this, although we still have a few tricky milk feeds, so it does vary a bit...

7am milk - usually no more than 4oz - she's not remotely interested in any other breakfast, I've tried...
11am milk - between 4-6oz
11.45am solids - happy to try most things but doesn't take much, as she's just had milk - more milk means less solids here
2.30pm milk - between 5-7oz
5/5.30pm milk - between 3-4oz
5.30/6pm solids - will usually scoff quite a bit at this feed
6.30/7pm milk 3-4oz
10.30/11pm milk 4oz

In total she's usually taking about 27oz a day.

Since we're trying to get her weight up, and I know that milk is the most calorific thing, what would you wise ladies suggest in terms of balancing milk and solids?

I'm torn between being delighted that she's finally taking decent quantities of milk and anxious that it's preventing her from progressing on solids, and unsure how to progress from here. Any help/advice/suggestions gratefully received...

db
xx

Anyone? Been given so much conflicting advice, and have been struggling with her eating for so long I'm having a real crisis of confidence... Really don't know what to do for the best...

db
xx

don't push the solids - milk should take priority

tbh her solids intake sounds just like dd at 6.5m and we'd had no problems with milk at all

'Progressing' on solids is overrated - she'll come to them in her own time without any need for anxiety on your part. Have you tried offering finger foods - lots of babies have great fun with them...

I would agree with MrsBadger...
Keep the milk feeds going in the best way you know how... this is most important for her to grow & develop.

I would suggest offering her finger foods at every opportunity, especially from your plate. Seeing you eat, and the variety of colours etc on your plate may kindle more interest.

With solids the important thing for them is not to take great quantities but to learn how to use their mouth & hands and to be interested in trying all sorts of colours/textures/shapes/tastes.

Look back in a couple of months time and you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

HTH and good luck.

I agree with MrsB and Catilla. My DD is about 8mo and has only had finger foods and milk (BLW) - she loves it and so do I because there is no stress with how much she actually eats (a little stress with amount of mess but that's ok!). Compared to experience with DS (who is now 4) I had to go to work at 6mo but I could not get him to take bottles (BFing at home) so he had milky sloppy foods shovelled in - a lot more stressful worrying about milk intake. So imo it's great you have the milk side sorted.

Hi there, quick update... just went to the HV and DD has gained 14oz in 2 weeks!!! [wishes there was a 'happy dance' emoticon]

I'm over the moon and resolving to stress less.

She'll eat her evening rice and fruit with gusto, so I'll stick to that and up the quantity gradually and just use the lunchtime to try new flavours and textures, as she doesn't eat much then anyway, so I've nothing much to lose, and let her have as much milk as she wants the rest of the time as well as whatever she fancies stealing from my plate.

I'm so bloody relieved and happy to have gone to the HV and come away without the bollocking about her (lack of) weight gain, for the first time in months.

I've also got a referral to see a counsellor about how low and anxious I've been feeling recently through all this, so hopefully the future's a bit brighter (but not necessarily orange...)

Thanks all for your help and support though, it has been invaluable...

db
xx

I have been wondering exactly the same thing, OP. DS is not hungry enough for all his milk and for solids - he doesn't really seem to want anything at all (except during the night of course!!) So if both milk and a small amount of solids are really important, what do I concentrate on?! It seems as if he has to be starving before he'll take anything at all (not like his mum ) He just about has his pint a day, but that's by the skin of his teeth - but it seems as if he'd have to eat no solids whatsoever for him to be hungry enough to take any more milk... which obviously isn't right. Oh flippin' heck, I thought 2nd babies were all so easy and that you were so much more relaxed about it.... well, PAH to that!

Tinkjon... def the same thoughts - focus on the milk, don't fill him up with solids. Offer bits & pieces of food rather than push big quantities of puree. Make it fun & interesting to learn about food. Maybe do food in between milk, rather than at a similar time?

Catilla, I'm not doing big portions - he eats literally about 3 teaspoons! We have been doing food in between milk too... he only ever wants about 4oz milk at a time as well. Maybe I should stop comparing him to his sister who used to down 8oz bottles and still have room for solids!

Hi Tinkjon... is his weight gain OK? Just the reason I've been stressing so much as that DD gain was static for 2 months and paltry before that... I would want to be causing you to worry about quantites as much as i have been if his weight gain is fine IYSWIM...

I've just taken to offering her as much milk as she'll take (often not much) and then offering solids and keeping my fingers crossed that something will go down.

In the evening I've found that she'll now take hardly any milk pre solids, because it's at 5.30 pm ish and only 2-3 hours since her last feed. However she'll guzzle rice and fruit with gusto half an hour later. Then it involves much patience to get a decent amount of milk into her before bed...

FWIW I've found that if I do solids in between milk feeds, or vice versa - which means basically doing some kind of feed 2 hourly - she's not properly hungry for either and takes less of both - does that make sense?

Heavens, what a palaver...

Hi there, I'm in the same boat too! My little one has never been particularly interested in feeds - he's tiny - only 5lb 13oz when he was born (on time!) and now at 20 weeks he's just 12lbs and his weight gain has slowed down - it's taken him 6 weeks to put on the last 1 lb. I spend my whole time stressing about it - I felt like crying yesterday when he refused to take his 2pm feed and then discovered he'd only gained an oz when I took him to the clinic. My HV has suggested weaning him, so today I offered him some baby rice after a milk feed but he wasn't overly interested. Designerbaby, I'm wondering now if maybe he'd benefit from Gaviscon to, as more often then not he seems to refuse his milk out of what appears to be discomfort - he'll start out with vigour but then arch his back, scream and refuse to take anymore. Never did I imagine feeding a baby could be so difficult!! Tina

My ds is 7mo and hasn't had a great appetite for a few months now. He started weaning (with purees) quite well and has now gone off these too, always refusing a spoon, In the last few days I put aside my terror of him choking and gave him banana, toast, cheese as fingers foods (as well as purees) and he loves it. Not sure how much goes in as I usually find a squished lump of something in unusual places!
I am not sure if this is baby led weaning, but designerbaby, may be worth a try if your lo is happy with milk and taking just small amounts of solids. And so much more fun for them too than having a spoon shoved in their faces! Mind you, I haven't the nerve to lose the purees completely as the good old HVs have us all petrified of anaemia round our way...

designerbaby, I haven't actually had him weighed since he started on solids - Second Baby Syndrome for you I was planning to take him on Friday though, to see how he was doing. that's interesting about not being hungry enough when milk & solids are staggered. So you give them both together then? I might try that tomorrow.

Hi Tina, bug hug to you... I really know how hard and soul-destroying it can be trying to feed a baby who just won't eat. It's really really gotten me down these past few months...

Its impossible to say whether the gaviscon has done the trick - we've certainly had a better couple of weeks since she started on it, but then today has ben a really rubbish one and she's been crying a lot - however this time I'm fairly sure it's teething - she's been drooling and coughing and chewing on everything and been quite grumpy all day. We didn't have that before... so... dunno, really. Possibly it's at least worth a trip to your GP to ask the question?

It's wierd though, I always thought that reflux-y type problems were something which presented early on and that they grew out of by 4-6 months, rtaher than developing the symptoms then

One other thing - DD didn't 'get' the spoon thing initially, so I just put some baby rice on my finger and let her suck it off... once she got the idea, the spoon thing was a lot easier. I still do that with new food she's not sure about... it might be to do with the fact that I always let her have a finger smear of anything I'm having which she might like... Ben & Jerry's Chocolate Fudge brownie Ice-cream for example [guilty emoticon] !!

Having said that, at 20 weeks he's still very little, so if he's not interested I wouldn't push it... it's still a bit early and may just make matters worse - if nothing else by giving you something else to stress about...

I'm no expert, quite the opposite, I've just treid most things in desperation...

It's worth a go Tinkjon... I've tried both ways, and, somewhat counter-intuitively, she seems to do better when solids are offered immediately after her milk and there's been a proper 3-4 hour stretch between. Could just be her though...

Nobody... I'm going to try some more finger food... probably after her purées though... to desperate to get food into her to leave up to her own little wandering hands entirely...

db
xx

Hi db,

Haven't read your other threads but just thought i'd offer my not very extensive experience - dd, now 8.5 mo, is a slow weight gainer, has dropped nearly three centiles, is about the same size or smaller as babies half her age and last time she was weighed hadn't gained anything in two weeks but i've stopped worrying about it now (almost!). Like your dd, she wasn't interested at first but at 6.5 mo HV suggested giving her banana, avocado etc as they're more calorific (baby rice will fill her up but won't do much for weight gain) and then cheese, dairy etc. Also said she would still be getting the nourishment she needs from milk (bf). We've been doing blw and admit that i've had the odd wobble, thinking i should really be shovelling puree down her but now she's going for it and it's so worth it.

I'm now only getting her weighed monthly as HV said it gives a much better overall picture (and stops me obsessing), and also trusting my instinct - dd is happy, healthy and has ample covering, which i think is a far better indicator that she's not starving than some lines on a chart!

How active is your lo? dd's always been quite active but was 'late' at learning to roll and is now almost crawling and i've noticed that her solids intake has increased since she's been more mobile.

I think basically what i'm trying to say in a long-winded way is don't worry too much about solids atm - you can't force them down her and she'll start when she's ready. I know it's hard but try not to worry too much about it- as long as your dd's happy, you'll know you;re doing the right thing.

Hi Milkycheeks... thanks for your post - it's so encouraging to hear from people who are 'out the other side' of this...

Yesterday was a bloody awful day, DD didn't want anything, milk, solids, nothing... I think she was having a bad day with her teeth though and was really cranky all day, so I'm trying to keep some perspective...

Today's been much better, after an unprecedented breakfast feed of 6oz(!! who-hoo etc.) and an 11 o'clock feed of 4 oz without too much protest, she's just wolfed down an "I've got nothing to lose by trying" mixture of sweet potato with home-made chicken stock (and a little bit of baby rice to stop it being so sloppy) followed by some "what the heck why not" grated cheese which she also loved... Smiling gleefully all the way.

Am thinking that she possibly takes after her South African side of the family and thinks that "vegetables are what you feed to food before it becomes food"

Maybe I should take my in-laws advice and let her chew on some biltong for her teething!? (I sh*t you not...).

Or just prepare her a nice rare fillet steak for supper...???

Joking apart though, am thinking that maybe the veggie purées I've been offering are a bit bland and she just wants more flavour?

Ahhh. who knows... Will certainly try mixing it up a bit more than I have been... knowing she's gained som much in the last week gives me the confidence to be a bit more adventurous with what I've been offering...

db
xx

designerbaby - you are giving Ben & Jerry's to a baby!? I can't believe it, that is absolutely outrageous... because why on Earth would one waste something that good on a baby when one could eat it all oneself?

Well, I am trying to get her weight up, and it sure as hell worked for me [fat emoticon]...

Devoted mummy or what?

db
xx

hi I just wanted to add my thoughts. I have a gorgeous dd who is now 10 months. from day one she has always been fussy about milk or food. i have worried about her weight from time to time but somehow she seems to find her line and stick to it despite refusing many milk feeds. I read your thoughts with interest and felt that i should add that i think there is too much emphasis on how much milk babies should have. Everyone says they should have X ozs and we all get upset when they miss and skip their milk and don't drink the amount that they should - but honestly i don't think all babies love milk. what to do then? my dd has now cut her milk intake to 1 small bottle a day and that feels very low. i look around and see other babies guzzling their bottles or on the breast. at the end of the day i have to believe babies get what they need.

designer baby, its obviously a worry when your dd loses weight. its great to hear she is doing well again. its easy to say but have faith, keep offering food and milk. try not to worry when she skips and trust your instinct. if you want to skip a milk feed do and offer food instead. if you want to keep with the milk do. i think between you it will come together.

CL, I don't think it matters if a baby misses the odd feed here and there, but to be honest I would worry if they were only having 1 small bottle a day. It's not just about weight gain, it's about getting the right nutrition as well.

designerbaby, you certainly are devoted as long as you're only giving lo boring vanilla - nothing yummy like Bohemian Raspberry [drool] And, side note, why have they stopped making Chunky Monkey?! I was desolate the day I heard that!

Oh no... strictly chocolate fudge brownie... I'm trying to give her a taste for the finer things in life...

[Wonders if she could justifiably replace milk quota with ice-cream instead... it is diary, after all, right?! Has feeling it might be an easier sell to DD who evidently takes after her mum a wee bit too much...]

No more chunky monkey!!?? What are they thinking??

Tsk.

db
xx

Actually, all joking aside, I am interested to look at the contents of B&J ice cream as I bet it's actually alright for a baby to eat as a dessert! Obviously the cheaper supermarket ice-creams are going to be full of additives, but there are definitely some ice-creams around which are just milk, cream, egg, sugar, vanilla etc. I've not made up my mind about giving DS sugar yet, but if you're not fussed about a little bit, a many people aren't, then I think you're right that ice-cream could conceivably be a dairy substitute! We used to make our own sugar-free ice-cream with just cream, milk & bananas - twas delicious. And oh my goodness, is there anything funnier than a child's face when it has ice-cream for the first time?

Tink, I'm very much of the "all things in moderation" school of thought... I don't see what DD shouldn't be allowed the odd treat from time to time, even young as she is... I just want her to see food - all food - as a pleasurable experience.

I love to cook (and eat) [fat fat fat emoticon] and really hope that in time she will begin to really enjoy it. That's partly why, I think, I've found her refusal of food so distressing when it happens. I had a terrible time with eating when I was a tot (diagnosed with juvenile anorexia nervosa as an infant - seriously) and would hate for her to have similar difficulties. So whilst I'm sticking mostly to the veggie and casserole route, I don't see why she shouldn't be allowed the odd taste of something naughty...

I let her suck on half a Lindor white chocolate ball this morning - her little eyes were like saucers!

db
xx

I know there are some lovely all natural icecreams out there - not sure that B&Js is one of them... I'll check out the ingredients when my groceries arrive tomorrow and let you know!

By the way, Tinkjon - did you have him weighed today? How's he doing?
xx

I didn't have him weighed, no - I went to Mothercare instead and looked at new buggies (oops, second baby syndrome!) I'm not really worried about his weight per se, it's more his nutrition that bothers me.

I totally agree about treats and seeing food as pleasurable. Glorifying dessert and such-like is as dangerous as forbidding it, imo. However, the women in my family are a load of porkers so I was keen to avoid that trap too - DD wasn't allowed sugar until she was 2 in the hopes that it would stop her having a sweet tooth, and it made no difference at all so I'm not sure when to let DS have some.

Hi Tinkjon,
Just checked B&J ingredients - starts well and then heads into 'Xantar gum' 'Lecithin' and other strage sh*t stuff.

Ah well, better keep it for mummies only then