When and how will breastfeeding end?

[FAR26]

I am still breastfeeding my 11 month old daughter. She feeds about 3-4times a day (and also sucks to sleep in between for naps) and is also up about 4 times a night (which is really wearing me down now). I am wondering how long these 3 - 4 day feeds will last. I went through 10 weeks of agony at the beginning and was so pleased to have stuck with it and breastfed my little girl. I have really enjoyed it up until now and now I just feel like a milking machine who she relies on to go to sleep and stay asleep! I?m becoming so frustrated and resentful about it, which is really sad cos I enjoyed it so much. Sometimes she pulls at my t-shirt for milk but then only sucks for a little or gets distracted and comes off. When she wakes at night she doesn?t really feed ? just sucks back to sleep and roots/cries if I take her off too soon. She has also started scrunching my breast with her hand as she feeds which is really annoying and uncomfortable (any ideas on getting her to stop doing this?!)We are co-sleeping so I can get some rest (she starts night in side-car arrangement, then I move her into my bed cos I?m so tired and cos otherwise she is up every 20-30 mins until I move her into bed with me!!). I just wonder when it is ever going to stop and how? I?m so tired and my poor husband and I sleep in separate rooms because he wakes her with his snoring and he can?t sleep when she is in the bed.I feel really disillusioned with AP, BF and co-sleeping as I just feel drained and cross.How has it been for other mums who have breastfed? How long did you breastfeed? How long did it take for baby to wean? Was it gradual or rather quick? Did baby just decide to stop? Or did you have to encourage it a bit? (PS. Sorry this post is so long!)

Poor old you. No wonder you feel worn down.

FWIW, my DS had a couple of nightfeeds (10pm, 3am) till about 9mths, then dropped the 3am feed at about 10mths. During the day - at 11mths - he was having a boob at 7am, porridge &/ toast at 8am, formula milk from a beaker at 10am (I was working), lunch at 12, boob at 3pm (when I got home), solid tea at 5pm, and bedtime boob at 7pm. With meals he drank water from beakers.

If you child is having similar amounts of food/drinks during the day, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect her to go through the night from 10/11pm till 6/7am, and give you some sleep. Having said that, I didn't co-sleep; DS was in a cot in our room, and moved into his room at 4-5mths. Other posters who know more about "weaning" from co-sleeping might be able to offer you more practical advice. I know some mums do co-sleep until their kids are 2, 3 +, but others knock it on the head at about 5-6mths, when it is more likely that the child will be able to go for longer periods at night with free access to milk. There is a school of thought too that stopping co-sleeping around this age makes it easier to get the child to sleep in his/her own cot.

Am sure someone with more experience of cosleeping will be along soon.

However, in my (humble)opinion, I wouldn't beat yourself up for moving your DD to a separate cot/room because you have given her an excellent start, can still continue breastfeeding during the day, and - at the end of the day - have to have some rest yourself, as well as some private space & time with your DH.

Good luck.

right first things first, get back into bed with you hubby darling, the time apart where you'd get most of your sexual time together is going....you need that back!!! second i reccomend putting your daughter in her own cot in her own room.....spend a couple of nights getting her used to this and she should be sleeping through very soon when she realises your not going to come running at the very whimper of her.....it sounds harsh, but you need your rest, and she needs to learn.....i had to do it with my son at 10mths and it took us 3 nights and he was sleeping from 7pm till 7am, he was using me for comfort because he knew i'd do it!!

my son (child no1) breastfed until 2 weeks after his 1st birthday (as i wanted to get xmas and new year out of the way and started him on 1st jan) he fed 3 times a day until the day i stopped it, i basically said i wasn't feeding any more, he could have cows milk and i felt that was good for him after 12mths of me being his milk pump!! he woke up to a cup of warm milk with his breakfast and wasn't bothered in the slightest!!!

my daughter slept through the night from 3mths without a feed but would have as many feeds as SHE desired until i decided it was to stop.... so on her first birthday she also woke up to a cup of milk and wasn't bothered, i thought she'd be wanting it as she depended on it so much up until the last day, but i gave her a cuddle while she had her milk and that was obviously good enough for her!!!

PS The title to your thread suggests that you want to knock the breastfeeding on the head. It can end when you want it to, although there are some benefits to continuing into the second year. However, most BFing mums I know were down to first-thing-in-the-morning and last-thing-at-night feeds by about a year.

I think the whole breastfeeding issue is perhaps separate from what is going on at night. Also, when she "scrunches" your breast, try pulling her off, say "no" firmly. If she persists, leave her off for a longer period.

HTH.

I wonder if it might help if you gave her other sleep associations? My daughter stopped breastfeeding to sleep quite suddenly, and we had No Idea how to get her to sleep, or back to sleep in the middle of the night. We did not want to do controlled crying, or anything like it, so allowed ourselves a longer haul method - developed a gentle bedtime routine, where she's breastfed, then story, then bed. We'd rock her backwards and forwards on her side until she fell asleep, then reduced this to patting and shushhing to sleep, then hand on and shushing, then just shushing, and then (miraculously!) in bed, kiss goodnight and walk out. This took place over quite a few weeks, as we decided to take it at a very gentle pace - in hindsight it could have been a bit quicker. She's been doing this for weeks and it still feels bloody amazing - I would not have believed we could just leave her to go to sleep. Have you read the No-Cry sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley? We didn't really use it, but read bits a lot in bookshops, and she has good stuff about gently stopping feeding to sleep. Mine did take a while to get used to milk from a cup - we did it during the less emotionally significant daytime feeds, and now she grabs it very cheerfully. I do hope things pick up for you, you poor love. It's so hard to be so tired and drained, and I agree with glaskham - you do need to be in bed with your husband. Good luck and please keep us posted.

FAR - my DS is now 15 months and still bf. He was v much like you described at 11 months, feeding a lot in the night and during the day. We didn't officially co-sleep, but I probably would have got more sleep if we had. Instead I got up and down and spent wake-ups sat on the floor feeding in DS's room and bringing him into bed if really exhausted. I was knackered and at times felt resentful.

It's great that you've been able to respond to DD's needs in the first year of her life, but it sounds like you want to make some changes now. This doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation (would probably be a bit of a shock for all concerned). A book I found quite useful about this time was the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley.

For us, we did a little gentle night weaning when DS was about a year. DH would go in and comfort DS and offer water and cuddle him and sit with him until he went to sleep. I hope you work something out that suits you and your family.

I now mainly feed DS morning and evening, but this is flexible. For example, he's had an upset stomach today and hasn't eaten much, so have offered milk during the day.

HTH

x-posts Habbibu

Hi all - thanks for your advice. Was feeling a bit sorry for myself last night! Thought about what you said, Anonymama, about Bf and sleeping being separate issues - I think your right. If DD was sleeping better at night and i wasn't a'dummy mummy' I'd actually be fine with BF during the day.
I've got the Elizabeth Pantley book and it seems good but I think I need to try each thing for longer. I give up after a few goes cos nothing seems to work. Maybe I need to actually believe that it's going to work! I do want to try and wait until she weans herself but having to feed her to sleep all the time is driving me mad now! Well done and congrats Habbibu - your success has made me think I might be able to do it if i persevere.

FAR -
I just want to let you know that you are not alone. I went through this with my DS. It's exhausting and at times you really do resent it!

BUT - sometimes tehre is a happy ending in all this!

I fed my DS until about a month ago. he's 26months. Because we co-slept and he was such a persistant feeder NOONE thought I'd be able to wean him (or get him out of my bed!!) Now he's sleeping really well, and in his own room.

as for this: "right first things first, get back into bed with you hubby darling, the time apart where you'd get most of your sexual time together is going....you need that back"
going where? you think she;ll lose her husband and sex life if she doesn't get her BABY daughter out of their bed?

let me tell you that due to various issues my husband and didn't really have much of a sexlife until recently and now it;s like we're newlyweds again!

do what's right for your family. maybe try nightweaning, but you don't necessarily have to shunt your girl into her own room.

Yes, Far - the thing that helped for is is that (after several false starts!) we decided that we were going to do this, be in it for the long haul, and just stick at it. The first stages were slower, and it felt like the shush/pat to sleep went on for a long time, but it did speed up.

OK top tips:
Comfort - get a chair that you can sit in comfortably for a while, and that you can reach over and rock/pat/put hand on your child easily without getting too uncomfortable.
Boredom - we took a radio with earphones in!
Shifts - our rule was that the one not dealing with the baby would pop in after 15 mins or half an hour, and if necessary, we'd swap
Relax - some nights it just doesn't go right, and there is no law saying if it's all too much, you can't bundle the baby in to your arms, go back, watch TV and cuddle to sleep.
Gradual withdrawal- once you've got to the shushing stage at the door or outside the room, have a book, radio with earphones, cup of tea/glass of wine ready, so you're not desperate to get away.

I think that weaning off feeding to sleep isn't stopping her from weaning herself off breastfeeding. You do have to compromise a bit for your own sanity!

I think making it pleasant for yourself makes you and your baby more relaxed. It did take us a long time, but oh lord it was worth it... Good luck!

oh yeah and the night weaning thing: wear high necked long shirts (can't go over, can't go under)
and expect much screaming. just cuddle her and keep telling her that it's ok. that you still love her more than anything. you'll have a couple of really bad get-NO-sleep nights. then it'll get better!

QUOTE: as for this: "right first things first, get back into bed with you hubby darling, the time apart where you'd get most of your sexual time together is going....you need that back"
going where? you think she;ll lose her husband and sex life if she doesn't get her BABY daughter out of their bed?

no i dont think she is going to loose her husband because she shares a bed with her baby, but obviously a man and wife should spend the night together in their bed, if they aren't doing this then they are loosing some of 'their time'.....where it isn't all about the baby but about each other and their needs, being a couple.....after all you need to be grounded as a couple to get through the tough parts together more successfully!! if they decide to do controlled crying for examle they both need to be strong for each other to stick to it, if doing slow weaning and slowly getting baby in her own bed they both need to know exactly what will happen when....

Thanks again all - esp for the top tips Habbibu! Well done, Naedanger, for feeding for so long. I honestly can't face any sort of crying method. The long-necked shirts /cuddling thing you described - I honestly don't think I could do it.
HAbbibu - what age was your LO when she suddenly stopped feeding to sleep? I think if I didn't feel like her dummy I'd be alot happier. It hasn't ever bothered me until now and I was always against using a real dummy - now I wish she took one ha ha!
And please don't worry ladies, my sex life is grand!

Glad you're sounding a bit more cheerful today .

Re: feeding to sleep... I did gradually wean DS off feeding to sleep for naps as I was worried that he wouldn't nap when I went back to work (2 days a week when he was 11 months). I used the 'pull-off' technique described in NCSS, think it helped that DS is a thumbsucker as I would ease him off the boob once dozy (didn't work straightaway mind ) and he would plug his thumb in and I would put him in the cot. Usually he went to sleep. Eventually it got so that I could put him in the cot when he was tired and he would go off by himself, no bf involved at all. After this the nights seemed to improve as well (also coupled with nightweaning - although I quite often end up feeding at 4.30/5amish)

Also, remember that a dummy is a boob substitute, and not the other way round. Your DD obviously has excellent taste .

And it's not all linear improvement. Today we got back from softplay and DS was so worked up he couldn't nap, so I slipped him the boob and he's out like a light

Hmm - can't quite remember. She's 12 1/2 months now - maybe 9 months? Her sleep went bonkers before that - growth spurt, teeth, developmental stage - who knows, and we spent several weeks in a sleep-deprived wilderness before deciding what to do. It drove me crazy that I couldn't feed her back to sleep in the small hours! Sometimes (rarely) she will fall asleep feeding now, but I still sit her a bit more upright and read the story - sometimes she wakes up, sometimes she doesn't.

I think the gentle removal/pull off technique Elizabeth Pantley describes and MW mentions might be a starting point for you. Maybe have a first goal of getting her to drop off in your arms but not still sucking, then count that as a major achievement, and work on your next step. I am super happy that we did it this way, but it did take a long time.

Other top tip. Pick a book you love reading. Ours is the Ravenous Beat by Niamh Sharkey - really funny and beautiful, and short enough to be picked up without dread.

Ravenous Beast! sorry...

You could be discussing my DD who is about to be one. We did do gradual retreat starting at 6.5 month and then she slept through the night between 7.5-9.5 (going form 2 to 8 teeth in a month, holidays and illnesses put an end to sleeping through). Gradual retreat does work but requires a lot of patience and it will take 4-6 weeks to work. Enlist help of DH and some earplugs.

DD at 11.5 months we did a very short form of CC to get her to sleep through again as gradual retreat would not work, she will not go to sleep while one of us is in the room anymore. We left her for 5mins re-entered room, 10mins, 15mins. If after 30mins she had not gone to sleep I fed her to sleep. After 2 nights she slept 11 hours through the night. I had to do the same for daytime naps and stop the sucking to sleep which reverted to when she was ill with rotavirus.

I thought I would never do CC, but it worked and I was at breaking point after 3 weeks of DD being ill and no sleep. Some children don't cry themselves to sleep my DD did until we did CC now she doesn't even wimper just rolls over when I put her in a cot hugs her duck and snores. I would have never left her to cry more than 30mins (Tania Byron's book recommends this).

Can't help with day weaning as I want to stop now and I don't know how to do it. DD still feeds 4 times a day.

Far - if there is a method to wean that doesn't involve crying at some point I'd love to know it.
There;s an article that i found very halpful but i don't have time to find it right now. i'll come back later to give you the link.
it explains what your child is feeling and why they cry when they are being night-weaned. it made me feel better about it.

I am going throught the same my DS is 15 months and is ok during the day ony pre nap and night before sleep but its the night time feeds which get me the 3ish night time feeds. I cant let him cry as DH and DS1 in the same room ( are all in 1 room) our house will not be finished for ages yet so no chance of not co sleeping for a good few months but some days I could just cry when he keep waking up of little nibbles and he also pinches and tweaks as he feeds have tied taking him off but he does it again and again.

finally foudn that article:

www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

hope it helps

THanks Naedanger - will check it out now.

I've just joined mumsnet, and came on with the same query as FAR26, except my daughter is almost 18 months old and my husband is in the bed, too. i too hate the idea of distressing my child to the point of crying but we didn't want to lose the great closeness of co-sleeping. FAR26, if you still enjoy the co-sleeping aspect of your relationship with your baby, consider if a few nights of crying is worth giving it up. there is a difference between a crying baby who is in its usual environment,hugged and held by mom and a baby who is left alone to cry.

the article that Naedanger posted is my new bible - i tried it last night and, yes it was hard but not heartbreaking. thank you Naedanger!

I rocked ds1 to sleep when he woke in the night from about 8 months. He was feeding so much at night that he ate nothing all day then flooded his cot with wee all night. From rocking, we went to him in cot, me holding his hands to holding one hand, to sitting by cot (for months) to being able to leave him alone at about 14 months. So took 6 months in total but never involved crying.

I've printed Dr Jay's article. We had planned to wait till the new year to try as we felt christmas would be hectic enough without trying it but I am not too sure now would it be worth trying before? Has anybody tried it?

Hi FAR, just wanted to say that I felt absolutely fed up to my back teeth with breastfeeding when my daughter was about this age (particularly night feeds). I just wanted my body back and wanted to let her choose when to end breastfeeding which seemed kind of incompatible with each other. In the end, she chose for herself, gradually lost interest in daytime feeds so that I was only doing morning and night and now at 15 months has recently stopped feeding from me at all. When she was a year old, I couldn't see how she would ever stop but the process happened really quickly after that and she just let go of it quite naturally and without any fuss at all. So don't despair. You may only have a few months of this left. I read somewhere that if left to themselves, most babies give up breastfeeding naturally between a year and 18 months so you haven't got long to go. And even the most ardent breastfeeders can manage to let go quite quickly once it suits them - I seriously thought I was still going to be breastfeeding my daughter when she was five only a couple of months ago!