Weaning and how often to feed?

[SueH17]

Hi,
I have waited until my DS is 5 and a half months old and have just started to introduce purees, apple and baby rice and also baby porridge. The Aptimel one has added vitamins and iron. My HV says if I carry on breast feeding my DS will need vitamins, so one question I have is does he still need these if they are in the porridge?

I have only fed purees once a day so far for about 4 days and wondered when do I increase the feeds to twice or 3 times a day?

DS has trouble sleeping - he wakes every 1 and a half hours every single night! It is exhausting and I have been told by family to introduce solids as he isn't getting what he needs from my milk - this is rubbish according to my HV! I have steered away from giving him formula as my HV said this will make no difference to his sleeping patterns. It's just the way he is! Also he has put on weight nicely so has no trouble with weight gain.
I want to continue B/F for a while yet so will have to put up with the sleepless nights.

Has anyone had any similar experiences?

Thanks
Sue xx

It's such a Shane that your family are undermining your choices in this way, but glad to hear that you have a supportive HV.

She is right, weaning and formula are unlikely to help with the sleep. Have a read of this on kellymom.

The current advice is to offer solids roughly an hour after a milk feed and to work upto 3 meals between 8 and 9 months.

If you want to continue with the weaning, I'd just offer food once a day at the moment and not worry too much about how much he eats of it.

Kellymom has some great info on weaning here. Not too sure on your vitamins question, I never bothered but the current advice to to offer them. Have a look at the nhs guidelines and this from la Leche league.

If the night feeds are an issue, have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution or 12 alternatives for the all night nurser?

If you contact your local la Leche league, the leader might be able to talk to you about introducing solids, night wakings and your family. They sometimes do talks on introducing solids. Your local nct might also run weaning courses

Shame. Not sure who Shane is

JiltedjohnsJulie is right, introducing food or formula is not very likely to make a difference to night waking I'm afraid, IME they grow out of it when they are ready. As your baby is 5.5 months, you don't really need to start with purees or baby rice or baby porridge, just give them finger food or chunky food. The purée route is only really needed for younger babies who can't control their tongue well enough to handle swallowing solid food, yours should be old enough not to need this.

Hi JiltedJohnsJulie: Thanks for the great advice. My family are adamant that my HV doesn't know what she's on about so I have a constant battle with them! It's very tiring and pointless! But anyway, I will check those links out, thank you. I've looked on Kellymom before so will have another look. 12 alternatives for the all night nurser is interesting. I have been letting DS fall asleep whilst feeding and putting him back in his cot next to our bed whilst asleep, but have been advised not to do this but to let him settle without falling asleep feeding. He is in a 'feed to sleep' habit now which I have been told I need to break.
I have been on the solids course at the Childrens Centre but it was just Baby-led and I wasn't sure about it as everyone has told me to start with purees.

Hi Lizziemint: Thanks for your reply. I know he's at the age where he could have finger food but I was worried about choking so decided to start with the purees and build up to more chunkier food. He can't sit un-supported yet but when he can, we'll put him in his high chair and he can sit at the table with us.

Sue xx

Who has told you to break the feed to sleep habit? Just wondering as I thought that being able to knock them out when you want is one of the benefits of bfing

Also, who told you you have to start with purees? It was true in the bad old days when babies were weaned at a much younger age, but once your baby has shown the signs of readiness,

They can stay in a sitting position and hold their head steady.
They can co-ordinate their eyes, hands and mouth so that they can look at the food, pick it up and put it in their mouth, all by themselves.
They can swallow food. Babies who are not ready will push their food back out, so they get more round their face than they do in their mouths.

then they can feed themselves with pretty much anything you can give them . Whoever is telling you about the purees needs there knowledge bringing upto date. Maybe get them to read this

its a personal choice if you want to do baby led weaning or start on purees.

I started weaning at 5.5 months, I was not comfy at all with baby led weaning.

It's what is right for you and your baby.

now that my little one is nearly 7 months old and im feeling alot more confident and less daunted im moving on to finger foods and doing a bit of mix and match, but I started out on purees once a day and she loved it. I moved her on to two meals a day when I felt she was ready which was only a few weeks ago.

Sorry think I may have come over as you must do blw. Obviously you don't but you don't have to do purees either

How are you getting on today?

Ds is 7 months now and we are doing a bit of everything. I also am still bfing and like you feed to sleep at night and throughout the night, he's now waking up about 2-3 times per night.

We started with blw but actually find it difficult as I am back to work and my parents are looking after him and don't feel 100% comfy with the blw and I don't want them doing something they are nervous with. He has weetabix with some fruit and maybe a couple of toast soldiers for breakfast, a bottle of formula mid morning, then some shredded chicken with either lentils, mashed squash, sweet potato or carrot, followed by baby yogurt and more fruit for lunch. Then I bf when I come home from work and through til next morning.

He is confident in taking anything we give him to eat, dh gets a bit nervous with the gagging moments, but we're just taking it easy.... Not being rigid either way and it seems to work.

Like you though, I feel I should be stopping the night feeds soon but am currently still enjoying the bf moments together!!!!!!

Hi JiltedJohnsJulie,
Thanks but don't worry you haven't come across as having to do BLW! It was my dear mother-in-law who kept banging on about purees and making us feel guilty that we must get him onto solids as he is a large baby - never mind this is a myth and it is the digestive system that is the issue. I wanted to do BLW but I was so scared of giving him anything chunky because of choking. He had a piece of cheese the other day - a tiny one at that - and his face looked so anguished I felt so guilty!
Re. the feed to sleep habit, ditto above - the mother in law again (not that we are married, but she is getting to be a bit of a monster in law to be honest!!) I totally agree with you that the beauty of B/F is somewhere to stick him when he's screaming!
Thanks for the info anyway. I needed to be reminded of what the signs are for weaning as I have so many people telling me what to do in my life!! (family mainly)
Sue xx

Hi Munchkin Jess
I feel better reading your email, thanks! I have been told we have started weaning too late. We are currently on 2 puree'd foods a day. I wanted to do BLW but was scared like you! He nearly choked on a tiny piece of cheese the other day! He loves being spoon fed and I'm not sure if I'm giving him enough food. He has porridge in the morning and then puree fruit or veg in the afternoon. We are upp-ing it to 3x a week next week.
I was worried that he seems to always be hungry and that's with BF'ing all through the night every night (more than in the day!). I have been advised by a Health Visitor recently to try control crying but I don't like doing it as he might still be hungry! I don't want to go on to formula either and when we tried to give him a bottle before his bed, he went mad and screamed! I got upset and just put him to the breast as usual! (much to my mother-in-law's anger!)
Sue xx

The vitamins are NHS Healthy Vitamin drops available from the pharmacy. They cost £2.88 per bottle.

Hi Bocadetruca,
Thanks for the email. It sounds like you have got it sorted with your DS! Waking 2 or 3 times a night for feeding I could really do! My DS is burning the midnight oil! I can't do control crying even though I did give it a go as per the HV's advice. To be honest, I was surprised she suggested it as I would have thought it was advice for an older child. Also as I exclusively BF, I'm never sure how much milk he's getting as I feed on demand, so he could still be hungry hence the screaming.
Like you I enjoy the BF moments and wish they could go on forever - but not all night!! I would be so happy if he only woke twice in the night but it's every hour and getting worse as when I try to put him down in his cot, he realises I've put him down and screams! It's exhausting!
Sue xx

Hi stargirl1701
Thanks for the info re. vitamins :)

Don't forget that the nhs only recommend moving to 3 meals between 8 and 9 months. Think you need to gently remind your MIL that there has been a lot of research in the last 20-30 years and some of the advice has changed. The waiting until 26 weeks has been the same for over 10 years so she should have caught onto that one by now

do you have a bed time routine ?

my little one started sleeping thru the night at around 4 months. However it was not plain sailing and I had to teach her to sleep better. it was hard work but we had to keep preserving as she was up every 2 hours for weeks on end and I was going slightly nutty on the lack of sleep.

I didnt do controlled crying however if she cried thru the night I wouldn't rush in straight away as sometimes the crying can be out of habit and sometimes after a few mins she fell asleep again.

I started a bed time routine and that really helped me. bath at 6 bottle at 6:30 and bed time at 7. just kept going even if she woke up a few hours later. eventually she got the idea. she was still having one bottle in the middle of the night, then eventually dropped the bottle.

my baby is formula fed and at the moment she is on two meals a day and three bottles a day.

Hi JiltedJohnsJulie,
Yes, completely agree about some people needing to get up to date with current research. We went on a parenting course so we know for instance that when you BF you feed on demand - the amount of stick I have had over that one, I couldn't even begin to tell you! Usually they say stick him on formulae. As I have BF for 6 months, they tell me that is more than enough. But nowhere in the info we have does it say that you have to stop BF at 6 months, but can continue to 1 if you both enjoy it.
I'm a bit worried as I have increased solids to twice a day for the last few days. I'm not sure if I should decrease it back to once a day. He was very sick last night as we gave him carrot and fruit puree and he gobbled it down then wanted a milk feed -- his poor little tummy couldn't handle it!!

Hi MunchkinJess,
We have a bed time routine at around 8pm I settle him by feeding him in our bedroom with low lighting and then I put on his lullaby night light and he'll sleep for a bit in his cot, but sometimes he'll wake up almost as soon as I've put him down in his cot he wakes up crying. He did this as usual last night and so I picked him up and put him to the breast but he just fell asleep and wouldn't feed so I put him straight back down - he screamed and so I put a soother bear in his mouth for him to chew and incredibly he fell asleep almost instantly! Unfortunately, he didn't do that again for the rest of the night and woke every hour or two to feed. I am thinking of trying a night time soother dummy (not sure what the difference is between them and the day time ones). I was adamant that we were not going to resort to one, but the health visitor said he's using the nipple as a dummy and not feeding properly. I couldn't do the control crying she suggested so will have to try the soother dummy.

Your routine sounds perfect. I think it probably does help when you know how much milk they've had so that then you can get them to sleep better. With the exclusive BF, I have no idea so can't really do control crying as he may still be hungry and I don't have the heart to leave him. I should get him onto formula according to my mum and mother in law, but other people say why bother if he's happy with BF which he is. So maybe I just have to shut up about it and put up with the sleepless nights!

awww hun listen you do what is best for you and baby. and if BF is what you want to do that's what you do.

I couldn't BF as I produced zero colostrum and zero milk.

some people top up with a bit of formula at night, so do mix feeding. but if that isn't something you want to do then do whatever you feel comfy with.

as for two meals a day your baby will lead you. my little one was ready for two meals after a few weeks. it took her a little while to get the hang of it all.

my health visitor told me that some crying through the night is a learned behaviour at when babies reach a certain weight they can start to sleep for longer stretches and dont need to be fed so regularly.

I demand feed to , other than bed time routine we are pretty much flexible around our baby. but have noticed a routine develop naturally.

Actually the current recommendation is to bf for a minimum of 2 years. Smile sweetly at your relatives and tell them that one or just smile and repeat "it works for us" over and over and over

Have you managed to try any of the 12 alternatives for the all night nurser? See if your library has a copy of No cry sleep solution too

If he's vomiting after solids, are you offering solids roughly an hour after a bf? Have you tried him with finger foods so that he can regulate how much he eats?

Lots of mums worry about baby choking. But often don't understand the difference between gagging and choking.

Gagging being when baby makes a lot of noise and is leading to deal with lumps of food in the mouth. Often happens a number of times until babies learn to deal with large boots of food.

Choking is silent there is no noise, this is because there is food or a object stuck in the wind pipe. And would require someone else to remove it.

Yes watching a bang gag can be a little scary, but a some point they do need to learn to deal with lumpy food.

Giving larger hand size paces of food is better, so they can chew on them. Cutting anything up small is a bad idea to start with.

Giving to much solids to early isn't good either, they actually can't digest much from food to start with. it comes out often in the same form it goes in, this is more noticeable if your doing BLW of course. But milk needs to be their main source of food until at least 12 months. I think it's supposed to be 80% milk 20% solids it's on kellymom website somewhere.

Lots of mums worry about baby choking. But often don't understand the difference between gagging and choking.

Gagging being when baby makes a lot of noise and is leading to deal with lumps of food in the mouth. Often happens a number of times until babies learn to deal with large boots of food.

Choking is silent there is no noise, this is because there is food or a object stuck in the wind pipe. And would require someone else to remove it.

Yes watching a bang gag can be a little scary, but a some point they do need to learn to deal with lumpy food.

Giving larger hand size paces of food is better, so they can chew on them. Cutting anything up small is a bad idea to start with.

Giving to much solids to early isn't good either, they actually can't digest much from food to start with. it comes out often in the same form it goes in, this is more noticeable if your doing BLW of course. But milk needs to be their main source of food until at least 12 months. I think it's supposed to be 80% milk 20% solids it's on kellymom website somewhere.

I think the percentage of BM to solids that migril mentions is here

Thanks for that I can't always get links to work on my phone. sorry don't knows why it posted twice.

Hi JiltedJohnsJulie,
I wish the health visitors would tell us this info - I didn't realise it was BF min of 2 years. I have been made to believe that to BF for longer than 6 - 8 months is wrong and weird! (not by health visitors, but family)
I read somewhere to give solids either just after a milk feed or in the middle of one! Can't remember where but I did think that to give solids straight after milk was asking for trouble!
Thanks for the info on alternatives for the night nurser. I'll check that out. The advice to keep saying it works for us over and over is good too. I feel I have been too weak and unsure of myself as this is our first child. If I have another, I should be a pro!!

Thanks MunchkinJess :) I think as you have, to allow a routine to develop naturally, is the way forward. This has been happening anyway over the months. I look at our DS now and can't believe how much he has grown. I have to keep a photo of him as a newborn where I can see him to remind myself of what he was like!