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Weaning

Find weaning advice from other Mumsnetters on our Weaning forum. Use our child development calendar for more information.

Original poster

DS vomits everything except fruit

34 replies

JessZ · 18/03/2014 21:14

Our 10-month old son really didn't ever really show any interest in food at all. He was fine with bottles, but never tried putting things in his mouth. We tried several times to get him interested in food, but he just wouldn't eat. Over the last couple of months he started showing signs that he was finally interested in food and we managed to get him to eat puréed fruit in very small doses. Any time we tried anything other than fruit he just gagged on it and refused to eat.

We now have him at the point where he is happily eating once or twice a day, but still only on fruit. Whenever we try him on anything that isn't fruit he instantly gags on it as soon as it gets in his mouth. It doesn't even seem voluntary, its just an automatic reflex. When we do manage to get him to swallow any - even just a tiny amount - it is usually followed quickly by large amounts of vomit and he just keeps vomiting until his stomach is empty.

We've seen the HV today and she didn't know what to make of it so is referring him to Speech & Language as apparently despite the name they are the people who would deal with this kind of problem... but we're hoping someone may have some ideas for us to try in the mean time or may have experienced something similar and have suggestions as to what may be wrong?

OP posts:
Sundaymorningwalk · 19/04/2014 00:40

Hi JessZ,

I'm afraid I can't offer any advice, only solidarity: we have a seven and a half month old doing exactly the same. We've been weaning for six weeks and she hasn't shown any interest. But when we do get anything in her mouth (super-smooth purees) she gags/vomits multiple times - the food only needs to touch the tip of her tongue and the reflex action is triggered. We are awaiting an appointment with a speech and language person (they deal with anything related to the mouth, as well as speech/language issues) and hope for some helpful advice. Hoping it's nothing serious and just a matter of getting used to texture, but it's frustrating having to clean up clothes/tablecloth every meal time...

Will post some more when we get some advice (hopefully next week...), but in the meantime, hope you get a breakthrough and that it turns out to be nothing more than a difficult child!!!

JiltedJohnsJulie · 06/05/2014 13:01

Jess have you seen the SLT yet? Has your DS ever been checked for tongue tie?

mawbroon · 06/05/2014 13:49

Another voice suggesting that you look into the possibility of tongue tie. It can cause this type of problems with solids sometimes.

How did milk feeding go - either breast or bottle?

Sundaymorningwalk · 06/05/2014 16:52

Would be very interested to hear how you're getting along, and any tips you've got from speech and language people. We haven't got an appointment through yet, so can't offer any more advice, I'm afraid.

Our girl is now eight months old and still won't accept puree. She'll open her mouth for the first spoon, then purse her lips and nothing gets past them! She's been putting more objects in her mouth (she didn't even chew on toys before..) and will now chew on a long rectangular biscuit - but as soon as it crumbles and she feels little crumbs at the edge of her mouth she gags and vomits. Nothing ever reaches beyond the middle of her tongue, but when my husband sees her react like that he worries that she's choking, so severe is her response. We've managed to get her to drink from a cup, and she loves cool water, but other than that she's happy on breast milk. My HV's don't seem too concerned yet - apparently, if you follow baby-led weaning, the babe doesn't get much nutrition from it until they're a year old, surviving on milk for their diet, and they compare Our Girl to that.

It's just frustrating - I was expecting her to be a bit further ahead than where she is now. It would certainly help me out, waking every 2-3 hours at night to feed is exhausting....

Best wishes, xxx

JiltedJohnsJulie · 06/05/2014 20:53

Sunday has your dd been checked for tongue tie? She sounds very much like my DS was at that age. Be has tt and upper lip tie.

Have a read of the tongue tie information further up the thread and see if your dd has any of the symptoms Smile

Sundaymorningwalk · 06/05/2014 21:33

Thanks so much for highlighting this. When we had our first post-natal check with the HV they took a cursory glance in her mouth and said, 'No tongue tie'. I will get them to have another look at her.

Her weight gain has slowed, and I do feel that she is fussy latching onto the boob (which is a recent phenomenon, she was a great feeder when she was very little), but thought it was just laziness on her part. She went through a phase of sticking out her tongue for several weeks, and it appeared normal with no restricted movement. I'll go to the next HV clinic (Thurs) and get them to review her, maybe even take her to the Dr if they're not confident in diagnosing it. Don't want to miss anything.. Would they do anything if she did have tongue tie?! I vaguely recall reading somewhere that if they're older then they don't perform the procedure to free the tongue; or maybe that's my memory playing tricks...

Thanks for the prompt, ladies!! I shall pursue this and let you know...!!

Sundaymorningwalk · 06/05/2014 21:35

By the way JiltedJohnsJulie, what happened with your little boy?? How did you get through that season, and how is he doing now?

mawbroon · 06/05/2014 23:01

It is a common misconception that sticking tongue out = no tongue tie.

DS1 could stick his out really far, and lift it really high. It was the back of his tongue that was restricted which meant he did not have the full range of movement for swallowing.

Just be aware that most HCPs do not have specialist knowledge about ties. Glancing in the mouth is not enough to diagnose or rule out tongue tie. Been there, got the T shirt!

The NHS would probably want to do a GA on an older baby if they were going to do a revision. This is not necessary or desirable, there are other methods that do not involve GA.

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 02:15

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 02:16

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 02:17

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 02:18

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 02:20

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 02:21

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 05:06

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 05:07

Thank you, mawbroon. Is there anything in particular I should look for in a rear tongue tie? I've tried Googling it and am now very familiar with tongue tie at the front of the mouth but not at the back. From the link shared in this thread, we present with several of the possible 'signs/symptoms' of tongue tie, but that doesn't automatically mean DD has it, though suggests we should get it ruled out.

It was my worry that a HV wouldn't be able to spot it; would a GP be any better??

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 05:14

Apologies for repeated posts, can you tell there was a connection problem and that it was early in the morning..,?! (btw is there a way to delete posts if this happens again??). Thanks for your patience.

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 05:15

Apologies for repeated posts, can you tell there was a connection problem and that it was early in the morning..,?! (btw is there a way to delete posts if this happens again??). Thanks for your patience.

mawbroon · 07/05/2014 10:03

No worries re the repeated posts! There is no way to delete them yourself, but maybe if you report it them MN might remove them? You're not the first to have done it!! Smile

Would a GP be any better? Probably not tbh.

Which other signs/symptoms does he have? Other things which can sometimes be related to ties are sleep problems, including snoring and mouth breathing, gastric probs, ENT trouble, mouth breathing and high palate, to name a few.

Posterior ties are really hard to spot unless you know what you are looking for.

There are a couple of tongue tie support groups on facebook. It might be worth your while asking to join to read tongue tie stories and look at pics that people post.

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 10:47

The other symptoms relate to breastfeeding and weaning:

I've often said to my OH that I feel that my supply is inadequate because if she could feed all the time she would! We can have very long feeding sessions (up to 45/60 mins) where she'll suck and eventually fall asleep, then as soon as she wakes up again she wants more. Her latch is hit and miss, too. She used to be really good, but she can 'slip' and lose her grip. She'll get the letdown, but after that isn't so good at getting more milk out - but if I take her off and reattach she'll just refuse to take any more, so I end up letting her start on: even if the latch isn't brilliant, it's better than not sucking at all! And it feels like she feeds ALL the time! She'll feed at least every couple of hours. She won't feed in a noisy environment, so she won't feed while we're out, and on those days I can push her to wait 3 hours between feeds. Some days, though, she seems very fractious between feeds, not at all settled unless she's feeding. Her weight gain has slowed, though she hovers around the 50th centile. She's never been able to take a dummy or a bottle, she gags on both. And when trying to give her solid food, well, she may accept the first spoon but then she gags and won't take any more. She'll chew on spoons, so I dip them in the food and let her get a taste of something, but most of it comes straight back out again. She's very happy to sit in her high chair and will play with food contentedly, but the finger foods rarely enter her mouth - we now celebrate and encourage her when she puts toys in her mouth to chew as it allows her to get a new sensation in her mouth, which might lessen the fear and gagging reflex with food - that's the theory, anyway!! She's never put things in her mouth from a young age, preferring to shake toys to make a noise than sample their flavour...

But, you see, each of these things could be passed off by an alternative explanation: she just has a strong gag reflex; my boobs don't produce enough so she needs to feed frequently; or she just prefers to snack than indulge; she's a lazy feeder and won't open her mouth wide enough (which I think is sometimes an issue); she's still young and just not ready for solids and one day it will just 'click' (this is my greatest hope..!!).

In all other ways she's fine! Fully alert, happy, playful, developmentally on track, it's just this one issue of feeding!

Thanks for your thoughts, really appreciate hearing your own experience and advice!

mawbroon · 07/05/2014 11:31

I understand exactly what you are saying about all the problems being easily attributed to something else. Each thing on it's own might not seem very significant, but when you start to look at the whole picture there really is a lot going on!!

Many tied babies are labelled as "lazy feeders" by HCPs which is not helpful at all. Babies are born with the instinct to feed and those who can't normally have an underlying problem and writing it off as "lazy feeder" does not help identify the problem Sad.

You also mention that he doesn't always open his mouth wide. This can be a problem for tied babies. There can be tension in the jaw/head/neck from the pull of the tie that can restrict the movement of the jaw during feeding. This can also be why some babies' feeding problems are not instantly resolved by tongue tie revision alone and they may need several session of cranial osteopathy or similar to release the tension.

Have you looked at his palate? The palate is flattened and smoothed out by the tongue in the womb and beyond. If the swallowing action is not "correct" then the baby can be left with a high palate good pic here This can also affect latching/feeding and has implications for possible orthodontic problems later on. If there is a palate like this one, it is pretty likely to have been caused by a posterior tongue tie.

There is also talk amongst the tongue tie professionals regarding the stimulation of the vagus nerve. Part of it runs near the palate and they are looking at the implications of it being "incorrectly" stimulated by a restricted tongue during swallowing. This is also linked to the gag reflex. There is no "proof" of this as such, but it certainly seems to make sense and ties in with some of the problems that ds1 had.

Sorry to bombard you with info!! I just feel very strongly that people should know this stuff to allow them to investigate and rule it in or rule it out in their children. DS1 went undiagnosed until he was almost 6yo and we had a bloody awful time of it. The sooner that mainstream HCPs learn about this stuff the better!

JiltedJohnsJulie · 07/05/2014 19:41

Just wanted to add that my tt DS had exactly the same symptoms Smile

mawbroon · 07/05/2014 19:54

LOL JJJ.

We seem to follow each other round threads with tales of tongue ties GrinSad

JiltedJohnsJulie · 07/05/2014 20:02

Just wish I'd known about tt, Mn and you when he was little Grin

Sundaymorningwalk · 07/05/2014 21:25

Thanks so much - it sounds like you have much experience and much knowledge in this area!! I'm going to the clinic tomorrow to talk to a HV and will take this information with me.

I've been trying to peer into DD's mouth today, to see if I can spot anything, but I don't feel confident to pick anything up - it's possible she may have a high palate, but without much comparison to a normal one (I've tried getting her brother to open his mouth as a reference point...) I don't want to say for sure that's what it is. So I will ask the HV's tomorrow.

HOWEVER, we had two breakthroughs today! DD ate some food! At lunchtime and dinner! Ok, so there were a couple of gagging moments, but she wolfed down some purée, asking for more by opening her mouth! She didn't eat a large quantity (about a teaspoons amount), but for her this is massive! Who knows what tomorrow will bring, but I feel encouraged by this. Her breastfeeding today has been as usual, a bit hit and miss with the latch. The reason I say she is lazy is when it's bed time, when she knows it's time for a long sleep (we have a nice routine), she feeds better and latches on so much better. Who knows. I will try to get this checked out properly, don't want to miss it and she suffer needlessly.

I'll update after I've been to the clinic. Thanks, ladies!!