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Weaning

Find weaning advice from other Mumsnetters on our Weaning forum. Use our child development calendar for more information.

Original poster

My reply to a query from Organix...

155 replies

colditz · 28/02/2006 12:37

()

Hi there *,

Thank you for your mail concerning the recommended age for weaning by
the WHO.

We do adhere to their guidelines and whilst they have said from 6
months
they have also confirmed to us that it could happen any time between 4
to 6 months so we are still allowed to say this on our foods. If you
look at competitor products like Heinz, Hipp and Cow and Gate they are
doing the same.

The reasons they have directed us to do this is because many babies are
ready to wean before 6 months of age and parents are frustrated that
they have to wait until 6 months of age to feed their hungry babies.

The coin is two-sided. We will always follow guidelines and
legislation
and have always done so. We have had it confirmed that we are able to
say in our literature that Health Professionals recommend that weaning
shouldn't take place before 6 months so if you want to start the
process
sooner than this you need to consult a Health Professional.

We are following guidelines and we have had confirmation that we can
say
this on our packaging. When and if that situation changes of course we
will change it according to what we are told and guided to do by the
government and health professionals.

We are always very open and honest within our communications and will
always adhere to rules and regulations concerning babyfoods and
otherwise.

I am sorry that you feel disappointed but I do hope this has helped
answer some of your concerns.

Kind Regards
Marie Van Hagen
Brand/Customer Service Manager

What do you all think? I think Hunker will be interested in this reply, as she is known to get rabid on the subject Wink

OP posts:
juliab · 01/03/2006 10:27

I had an interesting conversation with a paediatric dietician recently: she sits on some government committee about baby and child food/health. Anyway, she said, with a bf baby who's not yet 6 months but unsettled and hungrier and a mum who's beside herself with sleep deprivation, it would be better to keep bf and start solids than hold out till 6 months but switch to formula. And she reckoned that was the key point of the WHO recommendation: bf for 6 months - exclusive meaning not bottlefeeding, rather than not introducting solids.
I'm not saying I agree with her but thought it worth mentioning...

VeniVidiVickiQV · 01/03/2006 10:45

I think the rather important point here is that many parents frequent this site including the OP, who are not armed with any prior information and need help.

Therefore, to dismiss or even belittle recommendations from WHO out of hand because you have decided differently whats best for you baby, is irresponsible, IMO.

Thats not to say you are a bad parent for weaning early etc, you have just made your own choice.

It does NOT mean that because the government do not have this at the top of their list of things to change, and because Organix and other companies carry on labelling the way they do, that the WHO do not know what they are talking about, or exaggerate their research/results. Why on earth would they?

I think people should try to follow the guidelines given by the WHO and make sure that when people ask advice that they pass these guidelines on to those who dont know better. Better to err on the side of caution isnt it? I dont believe the statement "it never did me/mine any harm" is ever particularly sound advice anyway.

If early weaning didnt do any harm, id be interested to see literature or research on the increased incidence of bowel disorders such as IBS, Diverticulosis, Crohns Disease etc, and the increase in various food allergies/intolerances that are so much more common these days.

I sincerely hope this debate hasnt confused the OP any further.

SoupDragon · 01/03/2006 10:52

But Tiktok, the who say "infants should be exclusively breastfed(1) for the first six months of life to achieve optimal growth, development and health" and then that exclusive breastfeeding means "(1) "Exclusive breastfeeding" is defined as no other food or drink, not even water, except breast milk for at least 4 and if possible 6 months of life,"

This is in the same article so it's not as clear as people make out. They can't say an infant should be exclusively breastfed for 6 months and then that exclusive breastfeeding means nothig by bm for 4-6 months, it's contradictory!

baby dragon squawking. Must know I'm on mumsnet - bah!

Tatties · 01/03/2006 11:16

Juliab, my health visitor told me that too - about starting solids being better than switching to formula (which I wasn't considering anyway). That was exactly my scenario so I followed the advice I was given..

alexsmum · 01/03/2006 11:54

there is no way that my boys could have gone to 6 months with no solids.they were practically grabbing food out of my hand and shoving it into their mouths.Those of you who say that babies absolutely musn't have food before 6 months because it's who advice, do you also all breastfeed your children until they are 2? because that's who advice too.

alexsmum · 01/03/2006 11:59

vvv- you say that allergies etc could be down to early weaning. In the 1950's and earlier, weaning was done at about 12 weeks, and people were often adding stuff to bottles to thicken them etc.yet allergies were much less common then.

alexsmum · 01/03/2006 11:59

vvv- you say that allergies etc could be down to early weaning. In the 1950's and earlier, weaning was done at about 12 weeks, and people were often adding stuff to bottles to thicken them etc.yet allergies were much less common then.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 01/03/2006 12:24

Alexmum - my mum was born in 1948 and has IBS and diverticulosis, as do many many people of her generation and onwards.

Am currently b/feeding DS who is 10 months and will continue to do so for as long as he wants it.

tiktok · 01/03/2006 12:52

Soup - I can see why it is confusing. The quote you are highlighting comes from a footnote (not the guidance). The main body of guidance and recommendations from the WHO is consistent.

Alexsmum - I would be interested in where you got your idea from that babies in the 1950s and earlier were routinely weaned/advised to wean at 12 weeks or before. Please don't give me your gran or your great aunty as an example - otherwise I will give you my gran and my great aunty as an example and we will be trading not decent or educational information but personal experience, which does not throw much light on the topic.

Tinker · 01/03/2006 12:56

Not sure I follow your logic there alexsmum. Just because someone manages to breasftfeed until 6 months but stops before 2 years doesn't negate the benefits of the 6 month period. Most people try to do the best that they can. If they can only manage to do some of what is currently advised, that's got to be a good thing, surely?

tiktok · 01/03/2006 12:57

And alexsmum - no one sensible says that babies absolutely mustn't have food before 6 mths. Individual babies develop differently and have different needs - no baby wakes up on the morning of his 6 mth 'birthday' desperate for solids NOW.

Most babies don't need solids and gain no benefit from them until they are about six months. That's a common sense interpretation of quite a large body of research.

No one is criticising you for what you did, which seems to have come from observation and a response to what you saw as your kids' needs. Fair enough!

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 01/03/2006 17:43

d be interested to see literature or research on the increased incidence of bowel disorders such as IBS, Diverticulosis, Crohns Disease etc, and the increase in various food allergies/intolerances that are so much more common these days.

I'm more inclined to believe that the 'increase' in these things are

a) down to better diagnosis, look how many famous people who died years ago are now being discovered to have had x,y or z through research, yet those illnesses weren't "known" as such then. Didn't mean they didn't exist

b) the amount of cr*p we've started to eat in the last 50yrs or so. Additives, more pestisides, artificial flavourings, etc etc all became more common after the war - and that's when all these problems started to be seen more and more.

starlover · 01/03/2006 19:12

i agree qoq

Rowlers · 01/03/2006 19:25

I wonder how many mothers have never heard of the WHO?

elclose · 01/03/2006 21:39

I spoke to my gp and she said exclusive breast feeding for first 6 months means no formula but solids was fine as a compliment to breast feeding.
The reason for all the allergies i reckon is because people feed their kids total crap as soon as they pass the age of one. I bet at least a good 50% of all these mums who get hung up on the 6 month rule, give their kids nuggets and fruit shoots and food full of all sorts of additives and then kid themselves that because the didnt wean untill 6 months or beyond give themselves a big pat on the back.
I weaned both my kids earlier and i breast fed for 6 months with dd1 and still doing ds2 17 weeks and plan to carry on, I know everything that my children eat is good for them and i know what is in everything and the nutritional benefits because i made it. I say do what you feel best and f**k everyone else xxx

elclose · 01/03/2006 21:42

Sorry to all the mums who dont feed their kids crap, and yes my dd1 does eat sweets and chocs as a treat

tiktok · 01/03/2006 21:55

\link{http://highwire.stanford.edu/cgi/medline/pmid;15531685\here's a 2005 paper} which looks at the increased risk of inflammatory bowel disases (inc Crohns) in babies who are not breastfed.

It's an overview - it looks at existing studies and evaluates them. "The results of this meta-analysis support the hypothesis that breastfeeding is associated with lower risks of Crohn disease and ulcerative colitis." The authors say because there are not enough high quality studies, we could do with more research. But that the knowledge we do have indicates bf helps protect.

But if you want to believe it's artifical colourings or whatever, then go ahead....though it would be good to get some research, any research whatsoever, even the teeniest tiniest bit, to back that assertion up.

If you can find it, of course.

tiktok · 01/03/2006 21:56

elclose, your doc is wrong on the definition. Exclusive bf means nothing else but breastmilk, not 'nothing else but breastmilk and solids'.

elclose · 01/03/2006 22:11

By the way, i was not suggesting that people should wean before 6 months , just that it was a choice that was yours and yours alone to make, when you want. Also i am not against bottlefeeding if that is your choice.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 01/03/2006 22:13

Thank you tiktok. I knew crohns was one linked but couldnt find the relevant paper to back up what i was saying.

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 01/03/2006 22:26

but that's research on breastfeeding........I'm talking about artifical colourings, sweeteners, pestidicides and all the other rubbish that has been added to our food since the war.

Such artifical sweeteners were considered great............until they discovered that some of them are carcagenic

Food colourings - fabulous - until they discovered that certain E-numbers send some people hyper.

thimerosal was considered ok to put into childhood vaccinations..........but oops we then discovered that it's not actually such a great idea.

We're constantly told to eat healthily - it's known fact that eating too much of the 'wrong' foods is bad for you. I know of people who've got/had IBS who've improved their diet - and their IBS has gone. But of course it's all down to whether they were breastfed or weaned early isn't it........

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 01/03/2006 22:31

haven't got time to find an actual research paper into it but just found this on a (very) quick google search

\link{http://ibscrohns.about.com/library/tips/bltip-4.htm\here}

slinkymalinky · 01/03/2006 22:37

the paper on crohns is very interesting... but it doesn't say that you have to be breastfed exclusively til 6 months to get the benefits... which is surely what this argument is about?

tiktok · 02/03/2006 09:49

slinky, you're right. There is some quite good research on inc in intestinal infections with weaning before 6 mths, but I don't know of any that looks at serious bowel disease .

QoQ - I have no argument with the fact that some artificial additives can aggravate an already existing bowel condition, as can just about any food....I have a friend with IBD (not IBS) who has a very restricted diet in order to manage her symptoms.

I'm puzzled, by the way, at the confidence with which elclose bets 50 per cent of mothers who 'get hung up' on the 6 mth weaning thing then go on to feed their kids rubbish after the age of one. Where do you get this from??

elclose · 02/03/2006 19:17

It was anecdotal!