25 w/o weaning and poo - constipation?? Almost certainly TMI...

[citymonkey]

I have in the last four / five days started weaning my son. He has had some baby rice and some mashed up apple and pear. He is otherwise EBF save for the occasional few ounces of formula. He usually poops every 6-9 days and has done so since about 8 weeks old. He has never been in any discomfort (a few grunts and he is done) and when he goes there is usually a reasonable amount (!) of soft mustardy poop. He went the day before yesterday after 6 days or so and there was less than usual but otherwise normal. Then today he went again but the poop was small and sort of nuggety shaped (eek) and slightly darker than usual. Also he seemed in some discomfort when he went and was quite wriggly and whiny - poor thing.

Is this normal? I have given him some v watered down fruit juice today to help things along but was just concerned by the straining / wriggling. I assume just his little body getting used to real food? Also how frequently should he be going once having solids? I assume more often than his usual 6-9 day stretches??

Watching with interest. My DS was EBF until 4.5 months, then one bottle of formula a day until 5.5 months when we started to mix feed (3 bottles) and wean.

He has gone from one dirty nappy every week-ish to 4 or 5 A DAY. Started a lot more 'adult' like now runnier (sorry TMI) I was worried he had caught something but seems happy otherwise.

OP my DD has been BLW for almost 2 months, her poo at the moment is exactly like he nuggety one you describe (great word btw!)

When she started it was a mustardy colour and quite runny, and could've been a few times a day, now she can go a couple of days without. She also pulls some funny faces and seems to strain (sometimes her face goes bright red too!) but then afterwards she smiles at you, so obviously it's not too uncomfortable longer term. That and with BLW there were bits of food you could properly identify in there which was a bit weird

I wouldn't worry, they just have to learn to digest everything the same way they learn everything else. If they seem happy otherwise then they must be fine.

Um the pellet like poo sounds like constipation to me. My DDs poo stayed pretty soft for a month or two after weaning. Iirc it's 8-9 months before it starts to look more like lumps. She's not had any constipation yet, touch wood.

Have you tried some tummy massage, bicycle legs etc?

when mine got constipated i pureed some prunes (froze in ice cube trays) and then defrosted a cube and put it in some natural yog, that normally helps :)

Thanks for your replies guys - a relief to know it sounds normal! He has had some apple / pear / cucumber finger food (think will end up with a mix of some mashed on-the spoon action - he can feed himself when given a loaded spoon which really surprised me - and blw) but he seems to have just sucked that to death and the lump of pear he bit off was massive so I had to flick it out of his mouth as was terrified he would choke! So nothing 'identifiable' found in nappy yet!

Just saw last two posts - to be clear it was about the size of a chicken nugget and quite well formed (ie not soft margarine-like consistency it usually is). So could be constipation?

I will try some prunes maybe to see what happens, but am cautious about overloading his little system with too much too soon. I have read baby rice can cause constipation - could be that maybe?

Don't flick food out of their mouth please. If you are scared of choking, then just hold off the finger foods for a while? I think the NHS website says you don't really have to start finger foods till 8mo.

The reason I say this is that they will always bite off big lumps. They will also went through a phase of stuffing as much as they can fit into their mouths. You just can't pull food out every time they do something silly like this. You will have to trust they can handle themselves. If you don't think you are ready, just wait another week or two.

finger foods are fine from 6mths, but yes watch them for choking, most babies have a good gag reflex tho and will then spit the food out, or you can hook it out with your finger, which is what you mean by 'flick' it out? but it is a learning process for them and they will get used to chewing and how much they can cope with in their mouths, mine often put too much in and would then just spit some out themselves and i only intervened if they were choking/gaggin, often just with a pat on the back, a drink or taking food out of their mouths if needed.

the size of a chicken nugget sounds ok, depends how hard it was? if it was dry and hard then yes consitpated but just 'formed and solid' then that is probably ok but worth making sure they have some liquidy foods, sips of water or prunes in yog.

i dont know about baby rice causing constipation, i never gave mine baby rice just a combination of mashed fruit/veg and finger foods, moving on to whatever we were eating.

He was leaning back with a massive lump of pear in his mouth which he no doubt would have choked on. Of course I am going to get it out of his mouth! I am now holding back on finger foods of anything too firm in lumps, but your comment is frankly dangerous!

4madboys - it was not dry, just formed. Thanks for your reply!

And yes, after I saw the massive lump at the back of his mouth when he tipped his head back, I hooked it out with my finger (what I meant by 'flick').

OLBG - am fully aware of the difference between gagging and choking and that iceberg-sized lump would def have caused him some probs. Preferred to try and avoid actual choking scenario this early on... :-s

so you just hooked it out then? sound fine to me :) you can try diff foods, grated cheese is good as finger food, bits of bread with a spread on or toast that he will suck and chew on. pear and apples can be tricky as they bite off big bits and are prone to choke on them. its a learning curve for both of you.

ah your reply was to the poster above me, i thought you were saying my comment was dangerous.

its hard when they are weaning as they do bite of bits etc, yes removing big lumps is wise if you can see they are at risk of choking. baby will quickly learn how to chew and cope with lumpgs, some are better than others, my boys were all good but my 14mth old dd was awful and would regularly gag and then be sick! but now at 14mths she eats anything and everything, she suddenly got much better at around 10mths.

like i say its a learning curve, he is still very young and will get there, i just did a combination of mashed foods and bit they could pick up and chew/suck on.

My 11mo is BLW so I'm pretty relaxed about lumps. And pears are actually pretty soft. I obviously know things are ok from 6mo. But it's also true you don't need finger foods until later. Titling their heads back with a pear in their mouth doesn't automatically equal to incoming choking btw. DD regularly left food in her mouth when younger. Her fave to store up was chicken. I just made sure she was sitting up by sticking her in the bumbo.

My DS was only pooping once a week before starting weaning, then once we got over the initial weaning panics (my behalf not my DS) he is now pooping every day, formed but soft.

If there is no struggling or obvious signs of discomfort, don't worry all is fine, I found a tspful of olive oil worked well when my DS got constipated in the beginnings of weaning, and start offering water throughout the day as well, use a sippy cup asap your LO will soon get the hang of it :)

Take the weaning process slowly, persist but don't force, and don't compare your LO's progress with your friends babies ( I did that and it caused a lot of unnecessary stress, on my behalf again ;) ) your LO will tell you when he is ready to eat....

We have had another poop today - a soft but formed one followed immediately by a soft more BF-like one, so I think all is well.. Though he did struggle again with the formed one, let out a little cry at one point :-(

Are any of you ladies EBF and if so what is your stance on vit drops? Just had an interesting conversation with HV on the subject...

citymonkey Yes I EBF, I believe that as long as you are eating well, BF is the best and very well balanced, your baby will be getting all he needs from you, if you feel the need for vitamins then you take something like pregnacare... but ask your doc first

Unless you believe your LO is deficient in something then best get him checked by your doc....

Unfortunately TamaraNicolaou breast milk doesn't contain very much Vitamin D at all, so until the baby can be out in the sun with lots of skin exposed there's quite a good reason to give vitamin D as it will be living off of stores from pre-birth. It's not toxic without large doses, so supplementing is probably a good idea.

All current health advice from across the world is to supplement with vit D if you're not using formula (which is already supplemented) Moving to a balanced diet with plenty of time in the sun and full range of foods is certainly best, but I don't really see much of an argument against vitamin D. Remember as adults there are plenty of foods that are fortified with it.

if you look on the analytical armadillos page on fb, she had some good stuff about the vit d thing, its one of those debates at the moment.

have never given to mine BUT my kids are out a lot ie an hour a day at least just walking to school and back, plus time out at school break times and then after school, and in the summer time they are out loads, they dont burn so dont use sun cream unless really hot, just make sure they wear a hat etc. you need to be out lots in the summer to build up stores of vit d for the winter. so if you dont think you are out enough then maybe give that to your little one? there is plenty of evidence both ways tho from recent googling i have done its one of those swings and roundabouts!

Hi citymonkey, just wanted to say regarding the gagging reflex, I did read up about BLW before starting and it says that the baby must always be sat upright when eating their food. This way if they gag the food will just "fall out" of their mouth. When they are starting out (about 6 mths old) their gag reflex is a lot further back in the mouth, so it looks as if they are gagging a lot, but this is normal. It's quite good actually as it teaches them how much to take in at once, but you have to be prepared to sit back and let them get on with coughing/gagging (not the same as a silent choke, which is the one to worry about!) Eventually by 8-9 months the gag reflex naturally moves forward on the tongue. The book I read said not to intervene if they are gagging (ie not choking), as in some cases you might actually cause them to choke if you put your finger in their mouth or slap them on the back, as you might "surprise" them.

Re the vitamin thing I'm EBF as well, I bought some vitamins to give DD after hearing about vitamin D deficiency, but I keep forgetting to give her the drops! Sounds like in other countries this far north vitamin D is given routinely, so maybe it's something the NHS will start doing too hopefully.

NHS advice is now to give it - when I took the munchkin to get weighed yesterday, I asked the HVs what they thought. One said prob didn't need it if I was taking Pregnacare (which I am, the BF one - though will probs pay more attention to making sure I actually take it now he is 6 months) but to check with pharmacist, and another said advice is to give vit drops from one month (?!) which doesn't sound right to me and is not even in line with the current NHS advice from what I can gather! He currently doesn't have formula save for a couple of ounces occasionally if I need to top up dream feed BM because I haven't expressed enough (though hoping to bin that feed soon now weaning) so certainly doesn't have anywhere near the 500ml formula quotient.

HV also said could give him cooked egg (soft boiled or scrambled) which has vit D in it. Also I guess some flakes of oily fish when we get to that stage, which has vit D.

I wonder whether the advice to give it if BF from 6 months is because there is no way with BF to tell how much volume the baby is getting so they have to say supplement if EBF because there is no way to know whether baby is getting 500ml of BM (I assume that vit D would be in BM if mother taking enough?). I note that NHS advice is also that BF women take vit D supplement... Double dose if mother and EBF baby are supplemented?!

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-D.aspx

Breastmilk does not contain much Vit D at all, so no matter how much they take they're unlikely to get their recommended limit, which is why you need to supplement.

Odd advice from the HV with regards the egg too, SOFT boiled eggs are normally out due to the severity of a salmonella case in a smlal baby, normal advice is hard boiled eggs until at least 1. With vaccinated UK flock, and relatively low incidence it's probably not a big concern, but still...

Fair point, hadn't read that, my LO is already eating omelette and fish and we live in a warm climate and are out walking practically every day so hasn't been a concern for me, plus my doc said that my LO shouldn't need anything else if BFing...

However I will be reading the suggested articles :)

TamaraNiolaou If you live further south than the UK, and are outside in the sun with babies arms and face exposed etc. then I would've thought the sun would provide all you need.

Would also like to add if you live in a very sunny climate, the advice is totally different from they UK. For example, you should never go out in the midday sun in Australia. Instead you should be getting your vitamin d in the early morning or late afternoon. (Iirc around 11-3 is no go).

Thanks for that Fred :)

TerrorNova duly noted :) (mad dog and the Englishman...) generally take late afternoon walks with the dogs in tow...

All great advice and since reading your comments on Vitamin D I have been reading up.... That's why this site if so good, so many things to think about, thankfully my LO is not a fussy eater and with Breast milk (plus have been taking pregnacare since the day I found out I was pregnant) I hope we have our vitamin intake in hand. Thank you