4 months - too young to wean ??? Waking 5 times a night

[Inlovewithbaby]

my gorgeous little one is only 19 weeks old but after going to bed at 8pm wakes up crying for milk at 11, 3 (sometimes earlier ) 4,6,7.30 and then 9 etc.... I try and catch up on my sleep in the morning but cant. He is putting on weight but had dropped centimes last time he was weighed (he is double the weight he was born and very healthy, bright eyed). I wonder if he is ready for some solids? A spoonful of rice or mashed carrot for example mixed with breast milk. Or is any food before 6 months strictly a no no?

It's not strictly a no-no, and certainly they used to advise weaning at 4 months. But i believe it's very normal for them to have a growth spurt at 4 months, and it may just be that.

With regards to wanting your ds to put weight on, you're best sticking with milk as it's more calorie dense, if that makes sense, so if you give him rice/carrot you'll be filling his tummy but it won't make him put as much weight on as the milk. It is best for them to stay on milk, but obv up to you. Have you discuss with hv?

Sounds like the 4 month sleep regression which is a developmental thing, and not motivated by hunger. I have been through this and it is hard, but from what I read about weaning, I decided to hold put until my ds was showing the signs of readiness, which was about 23/24 weeks. There are more calories in your milk than in any baby rice or carrot so weaning won't necessarily solve the problem of hunger anyway. In fact, my ds is on 10 months, on 3 meals a day and still doesn't sleep through! can you cope by cosleeping?

It's quite normal for them to go through a "sleep regression" at 4 months and doesn't necessarily mean they are ready to wean. Breastfed babies also quite often drop centiles at 4 months or so, again this is normal, and as long as he is still gaining weight it's best to hold off on the solids for a bit.

That's very interesting re calorific value, I didn't know that. I was just concerned as we seemed to have had a blip with him not putting weight on at the same rate as before and now he is waking up all the time and it doesn't look like it's stopping any time soon. He stopped cluster feeding from 6 till 9 and now just has a normal feed before bed. I can't get him to have more. The one time he had both breasts he woke up just the same. I am exhausted.

Pretty much what pootled said. Growth spurts are horrible but milk has more calories than anything else you can give him. Waking at night is not a sign of readiness. Those are things such as loss of tongue thrust reflex, ability to sit unaided and to physically be able to pick food up and eat it. The "no rush to mush" leaflet from teh NHS is actually very good and you can take a look at it online.

I had mastitis last night too which doesn't help. My left boob had angry red streaks all over it and my breast had gone hard, it was agony. I used hot compresses and fed through it and it's much better today but it doesn't help when you're shattered. Wish he would eat more late afternoon and evening.

It sounds like the 4 month sleep regression to me too. If you look in your NHS birth to 5 you will see hunger isn't a sign for readiness for solids. Have a look at the NHS guidelines on this page. Basically baby needs to be able to sit up, grab food into his mouth and swallow to be ready for solids. The guidelines also says after 17 weeks. So if your LO indeed is a early developer and are showing the other signs of readiness, then it's no harm to give him some carrots or sweet potatoes.

But like others have pointed out, they are lower in calories then milk. Think about diet food. Would you eat carrots to gain weight?

Thanks for all the advice, I have a feeling the hv is pushing me towards doing something like rice (not sure though, seeing her Wednesday ) what is sleep regression? I still have little one at the side of the bed so am coping okay with literally slumping over feeding and then going strait back to sleep, god bless pampers baby dry nappies I don't have to get up to change him every time like when he was newborn.

I don't understand the baby rice thing. Even annabel karmel is against it! It's not nutritious and doesn't even taste like real food. In case you aren't into weaning literature yet, karmel is the queen of purees. Most mums who cook their own weaning food will have a copy of her book. Have a look in amazon if you are interested.

Google 4 month sleep regression and you will find a lot of info. Basically around 4 months, a lot of babies sleep worse than previously. It's a common developmental thing.

It's really hard isn't it, could you try to work round it a different way - express some milk for one of the night time feeds, and have your dh do that feed? Especially if he's not feeding much in the afternoon, you could express then?

As long as he's over 17 weeks you could try him on some food and see what happens. Obviously won't help if it is a sleep regression though!

no negative effects recorded for first world babies weaned after 17 weeks -

incidentally, baby rice & Bm has almost twice the calorific value of BM on its own see kellymom, note they have added water to the baby rice to get the lower figure instead of milk

after all, baby rice is 85% carbs.

though also there is no evidence to suggest weaning helps with sleep.

I hate expressing and don't own formula. So it's a PITA to add anything but water to purees before 6mo. As you can't use dairy. But yes I see what you mean by thinning purees with bm. You can do it with all the veg too isn't it?

Should say didn't own formula coz I've just got some this weekend now I'm back at work

Gosh I've just read about 4 month old sleep regression and it's little one to a tee. I am going to try and get him to bed earlier tonight and see if I can improve the routine. He is sleeping in exactly 45 to 90 minute cycles which is why it's so exhausting. I think he could feed more in the day but we seem to be in this routine now of lots of night feeds and not many during the day, hence precipitating the night time waking.
I am interested to see if he has put on weight. (I don't feel that comfortable with the health visitor who tufted at me and said " of course he is waking up, he is hungry " she never mentioned sleep regression or anything else.
You do wonder sometimes !

I am dreading going back to work, and it would be a physical impossibility at the moment, I think I would have a nervous breakdown.

Can anyone suggest a good routine for me? He is going to bed at 8 at the moment. Should I make it earlier and start to bath him before then feed just before bed? Should I wake him to feed when I go to bed instead of me waiting for 11 or 12 when he wakes up? sorry I know it sounds basic.I am just happy to give nothing a go.

Have you tried putting him into a sleeping bag.

I'm not a routine person And the only thing we have is a bedtime one. I wait till she looks tired after 6. Then bath and milk and then sleep. I find if she has a nap at 4 or 5 then theres no point starting the bed routine as she will just be wide awake after milk. Some people work in songs and books and massage, but it's up to you. Once she's in her sleep time, if she wakes again, we kept her upstairs in dim light. Usually it means either me or DH sits in bed with her with a notebook computer.

Have a look at Elizabeth Pantley no cry sleep solution. I found it really good.

Yes like the previous poster we use a sleeping bag. It means that she lies in her sleeping bag in our bed if she wakes up at night. She gets a comfort blanket to play with too. It doesn't happen often she wakes again but it does.

I am using a sleeping bag already and he is at the side of my bed. I might try a comfort thing, was just worried about him smothering himself with it.

That health visitor sounds misinformed TBH - a lot of the time they are, especially about breastfeeding!

You can get very light comfort objects which are designed for tiny babies.

You could try waking him for a feed when you go to bed - this is a dream feed I think?

It's worth posting on breast and bottle feeding too :) I know that weaning is quite often suggested as a "cure" if they are not sleeping, but quite often it doesn't actually help, and if it does help, it could be just that it's harder for them to digest which means they're not getting the goodness out of it that they would out of milk. Some people are happy with this, I wasn't, you'll have to see if it feels right for you or not.

Personally I like waiting until they are literally climbing up and grabbing food off your plate and eating it, at least then you know they're ready

And yes sorry meant to add it's quite normal for their weight gain to slow down at 4 months or so. The newer weight charts are supposed to account for this, but remember babies won't follow the curve exactly, they might be slightly lower at one point but they'll go back up again later.

Some babies have a tendency to start on a higher centile than they eventually settle on too, which can be worrying as it looks like they're falling centiles, but actually they're just settling where they are meant to be.

This shows the average weight gain - you'll see there's a pretty substantial drop at 4 months.

That's a really helpful chart (Bertie Botts ) it looks about right he was only 6 lbs when born full term, and at 16 weeks he was 12 lbs. He looks totally blossoming, he is a long baby but has chubby legs and Arms but is not of the sumo wrestler type as I have seen also.
The only chart she used was the one in the red book they give you, it doesn't seem to account for any difference between breast and formula fed babies. He was in the 9 th centime now in the 2 nd, but he is putting on weight.
She completely associated his waking up by saying he was hungry.