Night weaning = Complete Bloody Nightmare, end of my tether, help

[phdlife]

I am writing you from the outpost of barely four hours' sleep yet again, in a few minutes I'll be wrangling a grumpy 3.11yo to kindy and an exhausted 23m old, so PLEASE BE GENTLE HERE.

Back in about September, miserable teething dd decided she would go back to feeding 1.5-2hrly round the clock. I did it for a little while, then tried to block out a three-hour period (12-3) of no feeds. After a week of dd screaming the roof off for anywhere up to 1.5hrs and taking at least another half hour to settle I gave up.

I talked to the local bfing mums a couple of times and think I may have posted here. All advice suggested this was common at 18m and would settle around 2 so I gritted my teeth and yes, it settled - a little when she popped through 2 more teeth.

During this time, she picked up the habit of feeding to sleep. (also, nail-biting to go with her thumb-sucking.)

Five months on, although she will sometimes go 3-4hrs between feeds in the daytime, she still wants to feed at her bedtime (7ish), somewhere between 9:30-11:30, and a couple of times in the night. Last night, 12:30 and 5.

I don't know whether she's teething again (it could well be - still 8 teeth to go), still struggling through that whole attachment-anxiety thing (she is happy and confident but still requires a lot of hand-down-cleavage time to recharge in daylight), feeling the slight drop in night temps, or dreaming (she dreams intensely, often yelling out "no, mummy" or "no, ds" in her sleep) but I can't live with it any more.

If I say no (which I did at 12:30 because she'd fed at 10:30), she screams, sobs and begs ("please, mummy! need it, mummy!") for about 40mins, then spends another 40mins fidgeting, crying, whining, trying to get her hand down my cleavage or on one of two reassuring moles on my chest. If she can't locate one of these 3 things the screaming starts again until she finally falls asleep (last night at 1:50 something).

If I let her but try to shorten the feed because I am trying to crack the habit of falling asleep on the boob, I've been giving her a warning which she denies (hm-mm) and then fights me (shoving my hands away) and then screams heartbrokenly for a short while til she falls asleep restlessly for a little while.

If I offer her water she is outraged and there's screaming and kicking and smacking the bottle and me.

Then in the mornings, any time from 4:30 on, she wants me as a dummy. Comfort sucking, pop off, more sucking, etc, in half-hour cycles while she desperately tries to stay asleep.

I am weepy, extremely bad tempered with ds (who's having his own issues atm), bitchy to dh, scared to drive as I've had a couple of near-bingles lately, memory, self-esteem, motivation all shot to hell. I realise I'm being inconsistent with her but I no longer have the braincells to piece together a consistent plan of attack. The only thing I can think of is going hard turkey which seems harsh - even I can see that this is more about her need for comfort than a mere habit. That's why I've stuck it out this far.

Please help...

Hello have you thought about how much longer you want to bf for? Because at the moment it sounds horrible for you. I really feel for you and it sounds like you are beyond tired and prob little one is as well.

Personally I would go cold turkey at night. I think I would reach enough is enough this is doing niether of us any good point. However if you make that decision you will have to be consistant, maybe a last bf at bedtime and then nothing until 7am.

If she wakes go in reassure cuddle but firmly explain that there is no milk until morning time as you bith need your sleep!!! I imagine you will have a couple of nights of hell and then hopefully she will settle down.

Good luck x

I thought I would do it until she got all her teeth, because it's the one thing that settles her in the really awful periods. But right now I feel like quitting yesterday!

I wish I had your confidence it would be just a couple of nights of hell. Last time I tried it was over a week. 11 nights iirc, before I quit.

I really feel for you phdlife. Are you on your own - is there anyone who can help you out during these night? When I was bfing, I found DH could provide comfort during the night when the only way I could was to feed.

thanks, babybouncer. I have a dh but this is one area where he just can't help. dd (like ds before her) isn't having a bar of him when it comes to comfort. (daytime is a whole other ballgame, let it be said.)

I think you would have to be strict and stick with it also agree with the other poster about your dh helping out.

Hope it gets eaiser soon xxx

Poor you.

OK the following advice is based on my knowledge of my 10m DD and several years working with kids with autistic spectrum disorders many of whom have sleep issues. So it may be bollocks, but it sounds like you need a plan so maybe this will help.

Firstly you need to be confident about the following things. She is nearly two so she does not have any physiological need for milk overnight. She clearly has a very pronounced psychological need for breastfeeding at night and presumably for the comfort and security your presence provides. That need is real but she can learn to obtain comfort and security from other sources. Helping her to learn that is kind and thoughtful parenting. Remember that when she cries and gets upset.

Secondly I guess by 23m you are well into tantrum territory. Tantrums at night sound like hell but they are still tantrums, and the techniques you use in the daytime still apply. You need to be consistent and firm but realistic.

Thirdly she will sprout more teeth, get colds, get frightened by a scary film etc etc. You want to achieve progress overall but further bad nights are inevitable. I think the most useful thing we took from the No Cry Sleep Solution was to keep a sleep diary so that we could see that DD's sleep was getting better overall even though we still felt knackered.

Fourthly, I appreciate your children prefer to have you to comfort them at night. But they can learn to accept comfort and reassurance from their father too. You need to get him involved even if DD initially rejects him. It may be painful in the short-term but it will help to save your sanity. You sound terribly exhausted and I'd be surprised if you can sort this out alone. And if in the long-run your DD learns to feel just as reassured by her father's presence as she is by yours then she has gained something invaluable.

Finally I'm not clear if you are co-sleeping (I guess you must be for part of the night) and whether you want to continue with that or whether you want DD in her own bed. It may be easier to focus on getting DD to sleep in her own bed initially and once she is much more settled and sleeping reliably you can allow her back into yours. DD's sleep is now good enough that if I want to have a night with her I can curl up next to her and know she still won't wake until 5-6am. But there were several weeks where my presence was definitely waking her up and sleeping apart was the only way to fix that.

Then my plan would be to try the following...

Talk to DD about all the things that make her feel cosy and safe and happy. Perhaps write a list or make a big pile of DD's happy things. If she can't think of things suggest things. Things I can think of include cuddles, special bedding or soft snuggly blankets, comfy pyjamas, teddies, warm hot water bottles with furry covers, lullabies, bedtime stories (I love Bear Snores On), milky drinks other than breastmilk (perhaps in a special bedtime cup) and warm baths. But she may surprise you. My friend's 3 year old DS can only fall asleep with a large plastic fire engine in his bed and Fireman Sam under his pillow! There will be things on this list that appeal to your DD. So she does already have positive sleep associations other than you and your job is to help her to rely more on them and less on you. If you think she is old enough you can explain this to her but try to frame it in positive terms (we are going to make bedtime special and cosy) rather than negative terms (you need to stop breastfeeding).

Then I'd start with an improved bedtime regime. Starting the new plan in the evenings will be easier on you because you should have more energy to cope with the change. Include as many of DD's happy cosy things in your plan as you can. Offer reassurance and cuddles but do not breastfeed her at bedtime. Wear a polo neck! If she screams and fusses get DH to deal with her so you can have a break. When I was helping DD learn to settle off in the cot I spent ages sitting by her talking softly about how much I loved her and was looking forward to playing with her again. Obviously DD is too young to understand what I'm saying but talking like this helped me to feel calm and to stick with the plan. Do this for at least a fortnight.

After two weeks stop letting her breastfeed when she wakes at 10 (you can start doing this sooner if you feel up to it but I'd allow a least a week of adjustment to no bedtime feed first). Again get DH to go to her if possible, but if not pop that polo neck back on, cuddle, sing, soothe, reassure but Do Not breastfeed.

And after a fortnight of that I'd move it on up to the 2am feed (if she is still waking at 2am by that point) etc etc.

I think this should help. It may not work fast enough for you but I think one virtue of trying this is that once she is sleeping longer you can be confident it is because her anxiety about waking in the night has reduced and she has learnt positively that she can safely go back to sleep without you, rather than that there is no point crying. Not that I am completely anti controlled crying but I am quite sure that there are some children it does not work for.