Anyone doing GF routine. Q about milk/lunch

[messylittlemonkey]

Hi

DD2 is nearly 27 weeks and we've been puree weaning using GF's routine for about 5 weeks now.

Her routine at present is:

7am: 8oz formula and few spoons cereal/fruit
10.45: 5oz formula followed by solids
2pm: 7oz formula
5pm: veg puree/yoghurt
6.15pm 8oz milk

My quetion relates to the fact that now she is 6mo, she can of course have protein at lunchtime, but I know that protein shouldn't be given at same time as milk. In GF's book, she is very sketchy about how to drop the lunchtime milk feed.

I was wondering if I could get away with giving DD the milk as a 'snack' then giving her solids an hour later as lunch.

Mu concern is that she might not want solids an hour after having milk and/or that she won't be satisfied by only having a small milk feed mid morning!

We did this routine with DD1 but have no memory of making the transition at lunchtime!

If you are doing GF you will understand my concern. if not, then you're probably woindering what I'm going on about :o

I would give the milk mid-morning and lunch a bit later, maybe even at a more normal lunchtime e.g. 11.30am/12pm unless that then clashes with a nap.

p.s. I always split milk/solids so the issue of protein with milk never really arose.

Thanks Seona1973.

I meant to say in my OP that DD naps from 9-9.30 and then again from 12-2pm, so she could have lunch at 11.30am.

The GF routine 'states' that lunch should be around 11.30 by 6mo, but DD is always starving by mid morning!

Why can't you give protein with milk? Sorry, am just being nosey but it's not something I've heard of before!

When I introduced lunch with DS I just gave him his food before his milk. He gradually just took less milk after lunch until I dropped that milk feed altogether and gave him yoghurt for pudding to make up for it.

It's because milk/protein given at the same time reduces the bodies ability to absorb iron by 50% and iron is the thing that babies have run out of by the time they're 6mo.

That's it basically. :)

Well, I'd never heard that before! I never did the GF routine though, just kind of made it up for myself as I went along!

Babies don't run out of iron by the time they're 6mo, at around 6mo iron stores begin to gradually deplete.

God, I hate GF.

Thanks, Jemjabella for setting that straight - I knew what I meant but that's clarified it for others.

I know GF is unpopular but I have had nothing but positive experiences following her routine.

Each to their own, eh? Didn't really want to unleash a backlash against her - just wanted advice from other followers.

Me not liking GF isn't a criticism of you btw, in case you were wondering :)

I don't know whether this is different with formula, but my DS eats lots of solids, and I always offer a milk feed immediately beforehand (maybe max 15 mins before the solid meal). But he's BF and we're BLWing, so I don't know if that makes a difference.

I've not heard that giving protein with milk reduces absorption of iron - certainly Kellymom doesn't mention anything about it in her information about iron, and she's usually pretty good.

Do you know what research this is based on? (I'm not wanting to be difficult, OP, just curious as I've never come across this before). :)

No, I know.

I was almost loathe to mention it in the thread title as I know how controversial she is (especially on here), but as I said my question was quite specific to her routine.

I can very much understand why people don't like her and her ethos, all I know is it's worked for us twice. Even then, I wouldn't necessarily recommend her routine to most people, just anal types like me!

Well, GF refers to it in her book and I seem to think Anabel Karmel says something about it too.

If that's wrong I'd be glad to know - it would make my life easier! :)
.
I'll go and google it

I thought there was iron supplements in formula, and that it was breast fed babies who you needed to ensure you were starting to introduce iron with?

Is there not protein in milk itself? (Thought it was about 8% protein) And infant formula contains both protein and iron, afaik.

messylittlemonkey - I have "kind of" followed gina ford as I was very nervous about weaning as wanted something to help me structure (and yes I am a little anal too ..)

I dropped the number of oz DD was having at the lunchtime feed as the quantity of food increased, down to about 2oz.

She loves her solids so by then she almost wasn't interested in the milk first and wanted to get to the "main event". She is now having protein at lunch, with a drink of water from a beaker, and if she's still hungry afterwards has a yogurt. (but that's got calcium so no idea if that affects iron absorption too??)

In practice, my dd has her breakfast an hour after her early morning bottle and still wants solids - so maybe your LO would as well. (unless I have a very hungry baby, that is!!)

Yes, there are iron supps in formula, but my question is about the fact that, according to things I've read (see above), taking protein at the same meal as drinking milk inhibits the bodies iron absorption capacity.

I'm just googling this to see if it stacks up. As I said, this is what I read, but if it's not right, then I won't worry about it any further!

It wouldn't make sense to sell formula containing protein as well as iron if one was going to cancel the other out.

(But then look at Nestle and their tactics...)

I give milk about 10.30/ 11 and then lunch an hour later. Apart from that same routine as you. DD is eating well and cutting down on milk amounts at some feeds by herself now (9 months)

from googling, it seems that calcium can inhibit iron absorption although different studies seemed to give different results.

They do recommend when taking iron supplements that you don't drink cow's milk 30 mins before/after the tablet, but that may be different to formula. Breast milk has certain properties which help the absorption of iron so that is different again.

I personally wouldn't worry too much unless your LO is iron deficient, but then I'm not the worrying organised sort (hence my distaste for Ms F!)

I was going to say - bm has lactoferrin so binds iron. If ff how the hell do you know how long to wait either side of milk for protein? Don't babies normally have a lunchtime bottle post protein lunch?

mine never had bottles with solids so a day would have looked like this:

7am - milk
8am - breakfast
10.30/11am - milk
12pm - lunch
2.30/3pm - milk
5pm - dinner
7.15pm - milk

I gave water in a lidded cup along with meals

I know that iron is absorbed more easily when in the presence of vitamin C - and so if protein is given alongside fruit or veg, it should not be a problem if there is or isn't milk.

Thanks everyone.

I've googled 'protein inhibiting iron absorption' and got lots of sciency results, some of which were a bit too complicated to make much sense of.

It does state quite clearly in GF that this is the case, but it obviously isn't widely acknowledged.

I think I'll go down the mid morning milk followed by a later lunch route as this would avoid any potential iron probs and make DD have her lunch at a more sensible time than she is currently. :)

When I weaned ds1(I followed GF) when I got to the stage of introducing protein I dropped the milk feed at lunch time. He didn't need milk and a full meal. He was still having the recommended daily intake of milk.

Hi, I used GF routine with my son and it worked brill. When I started to gradually introduce the protien (e.g 2cubes chicken casserole and 4 cubes veg) I also started to gradually reduce the milk by one ounce as I went up by one cube of chicken casserole. To the point where he was only on 2ounces. Then at 7months when I went onto the full protien recipies in 2nd stage weaning I cut it out all together and offered a beaker of water which he happily had. Hope that helps.