Night weaning and back to work. Help, I really need advice...

[mummamango]

Sorry this is a bit long winded...

I started my b.fed 9month old son on solids at 6months (BLW) and he now eats like a horse. I have to go back to work in 2months (so he will be 11 months then) and would really like to get him sleeping through the night before then.

He currently goes down in his cot at 7pm after a feed and falls asleep with his dummy and a back scratch. However, this has not stopped him waking up in the middle of the night to get in a bed with me and breast feed throughout the rest of the night (3-5 times) until 6ish. The bed we sleep in is in his room - to allow my Hubby to sleep through the night - as he has to get up for work.

I realise he is eating enough food in the day and probably doesn't need to feed through the night. He is easily distracted in the day so probably takes on more milk at night, although sometimes he just suckles for comfort and drops off to sleep very quickly.

Up until now this has seemed like the best way for us all to get a peaceful night. But now I am returning to work I am really scared of not getting full night's sleep. (haven't had a night's sleep for a year now - as I couldn't sleep for the last 2 months of pregnancy). Just can't bring myself to do CC, so am wondering if anyone has been in the same situation and can offer advice or if there are any books on gentle night time weaning that won't make me feel guilty about weaning from the breast before he is a toddler!

Thanks.

I night weaned both my DS's once they were on three solid feeds a day, because I believed that they didn't need the milk at night and were just waking for comfort feeds

also I knew that they could sleep through as they had between 10-12 weeks old before they started waking again due to growth spurts and being hungry. but once on solid food they were waking more out of habit.

so what I did was give them a bedtime milk feed and then when they woke in the night I didn't pick them up but just patted their back and shushed them until they went back to sleep, if they got very angry I gave the dummy and this gave the comfort of sucking and they went back to sleep. If they woke again I followed the same routine.
I may have been lucky that they never took long to go back to sleep.

after about three-four nights they stopped waking or would wake and settle themselves back to sleep again without any intervention from me.

Thanks IWNNEAT. Yes he's definitely waking out of habit and wants the comfort. He just gets SO angry if he can't have milk in the night I guess I'm a bit scared of the reaction and it always seems like it's just easier to give in.
But your experience gives me some hope [SMILE]

Have you read the No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley? There are ideas for encouraging fewer night wakings without resorting to CC - but it's a slow process.

I'm trying to use some of the ideas myself - my 7 m.o. DS is currently waking every 2 hours through the night (more often in the evening) - I think because he has got into the habit of me feeding him every time he wakes and now thinks he can't get back to sleep after each sleep cycle without me bfing him. So I'm working on resettling him without feeding him.

Patting seems to be working so far - but I didn't have much luck with this until I'd really nailed his naps so he was getting a decent amount of daytime sleep. Some people find their DC won't settle for them without milk, and have to send in DH to settle them instead.

A couple of nights in, he's still been waking every 2 hours but I've been able to settle him with 2 mins of patting instead of up to half an hour of bf. If he wakes and I can't settle him in 15 mins with patting, I'll assume he's hungry and feed him. I'm hoping that like IWNNEAT it will encourage him to sleep through cycle changes on his own.

An alternative method is to reduce the length of night feeds e.g. shorten by a minute every other day.

The No-Cry Sleep Solution has some other suggestions for reducing the sucking-to-sleep association without immediately having to stop offering a feed if they want one.

i tried night weaning at 8 months and it was a disaster. got through the 9 month crazy sleep thing and then tried again at 10months. simply didn't feed him and didn't pick him up. just ran in, said you're fine, its nighttime, go back to sleep and left. he woke up 5 times and i did it 5 times. didn't feed him till 5. cried a bit longer at 4am - on and off.

the next night he slept 6-4, fed him at 5 slept till 7
the night after that he slept 6-5 and then till 7
has done that since - 5 nights now...

i didn't want to leave him to cry EVER but he had got the object permanance thing and i was a bit of a tired mess, as was he. i knew he wouldn't feel abandoned. he must be a fast learner as it worked after one night. he was ready. i was ready. he has doubled his food intake in he day and is full of beans as he has so much sleep at night! love it! we have a lovely long cuddle and feed at 5am before he goes back to sleep for two hours - so do i, and he is more focused for milk in the day (we also had awful distraction problems from 4-9 months)

good luck. wait a month or so - he'll be that much older.

hth

oh but now he won't really nap as he is sleeping so well at night you can never fully crack it can you!

DS is just 9 months - what's the 9mnth crazy sleep thing Ruby?

He eats really well and has two naps one at 10:30 for 1-1.5 hours and one at 3/4pm for about an hour as well - is that enough napping?

Last night he went to sleep at about 7:30 in his cot as usual after a B.Feed then when he woke up somewhere between 11/12pm (I think), got in bed with me and refused to take my nipple out of his mouth all night!

When I try to replace it with his dummy if he's asleep, he gets annoyed, spits the dummy out and grabs my boob and puts it back in his mouth

Angeldog - I have read Elizabeth Pantly, and tried some of it with some degree of success, he will let me put him down in his cot after a feed and go to sleep in there so I had hoped this would help him go back to sleep without a feed. He has also let me pat him back to sleep in his cot once or twice after his first waking. It's just when he wakes up properly around an hour after I've gone to bed (in a separate room) he insists on a feed.

Sorry for the rambling, just feeling exasperated!

Am thinking of trying the Dr Jay method next weekend with DH's help. Anyone up for joining me??

hi Mummamango,

Am not sure what the Dr Jay method is but we're in the same boat. DS is nearly 8 months and I'm planning on going back to work when he's about 9.5 months so could really do with getting the sleep thing cracked.

DS currently is on 3 meals a day and doing well with them. He gets BF at 0600, 0830 ish (feeding to sleep before a nap), sometimes top up around 11ish, feed to sleep at about 1ish, then final big feed at 6pm - again feeding to sleep! Mealtimes are breakfast at 8ish, lunch at 1230ish, tea at 1630ish. He can then be up through the night every 2 hours for a feed but he does seem to completely empty one side, so he does still seem to be hungry at night, rather than just for comfort.

He's going through a bit of a big developmental patch at the moment though - crawling is not far off, babbling lots and lots, eating lots, teeth coming through so I'm sure that that's got something to do with his sleep at the moment.

Anyway, would love to hear how you're getting on. :)

hi mummamango, the crazy sleep thing is the 9 month sleep regression. this and and this

i mean, in my mum's day these things weren't around, so i imagine she would be a bit at all these sleep regression things but it made sense to me... they happen at times of big developmental leaps, crawling, standing sitting etc etc and their brains just won't let them sleep.

cairnterrier my DS would happily down boobs galore in the night so i was convinced he was hungry until i said enough is enough. and he slept through . i did try it at 8 months and it was a disaster and i thought to wait till ten months as his skills would be better for getting food into him (blw) and he would be past this alleged sleep regression. mind you, he did seem to have an almighty growth spurt at 9 months so maybe is was hungry! who knows! and anyway, this might not last forever so i def. don't profess to have all the answers!

i do think we just have to do what feels right when it comes to our babies and sleep!

oh and penelope leach says that at this age a want is a need is a want is a need so i was like, if the boy wants milk, he needs milk. even if it is for comfort.

and he is such a happy baby so all that comfort must have done him good!

mummamango, this may not be the case with for you, but I find that if DS wants to keep my nipple in his mouth it's because he's overtired.

Sleep books suggest that many babies between the ages of 6 and 18 months end up on a 2-3-4 pattern: first nap 2 hours after waking, next nap 3 hours after waking, bedtime 4 hours after waking. For babies who wake at 7ish (haha) that means naps around 9am and 1pm ish. This site says that 9 month olds will generally get about 3 hours daytime sleep. But obviously they're all different!

Ruby's links on the 9 month regression are good ones.

at Rubybuckleberry and the happy babies and comfort!

Last night not too bad after a fairly disastrous day - allergic reaction to egg at lunchtime so no nap, fell asleep at 1630 for an hour so everything went to pot! However, asleep at 1900, awake at 2230, 0130, 0330 (0345 as well but settled w just a cuddle) 0430 and finally 0630. Lets see what tonight brings!

Hope everyone else is doing okay.

Hmm the big 9 mnth developmental stage thing is interesting - DS has just started crawling and is getting much more interactive!

CairnT: Sorry I wasn't very clear earlier, it's the Dr Jay Gordon gentle night weaning plan. Meant for babies over a year but it seems quite straightforward and relatively quick: drjaygordon.com/attachment/sleeppattern.html

Ruby: It's definitely nice to have happy babies but can't help thinking DS may be happier if his mummy had more energy?

AngelD and Ruby : thanks for the links re: sleep patterns - looking forward to reading them.

Speak soon :)

Definitely like the look of the method, seems quite gentle. TBH I'm not going to start it just yet as we've just moved house, I'm going back to work soon and DS will be with a CM so I don't want him to think that I've completely disappeared! I'd love to hear how you get on though. I've just had a bit of a breakthrough as DS was happy to be rocked back to sleep half way through his nap for the first time :)

Congrats CairnT - it's lovely when they surprise you like that isn't it?

If only I'd known in advance, I could have got so much done!! In the event I managed to get a hot drink made AND drunk. Thinking about it, probably the most useful thing I could have done :)

Now, moving on to the fact that he's just filled a nappy that was clean on 5 mins ago..........

mummamango, i agree. i wrote out a sleep plan on a big piece of paper before i embarked on night weaning. to keep me going if i lost my resolve. and most of the 'reasons for doing this' are to do with being totally cream crackered and how much more things i could think of / do / organise, if i was well slept!

i don't regret the months of comfort feed cuddles though, if that is indeed what they were, and i'm sure my DS doesn't either!

Okay, yet another rubbish night. I'm wondering if we're in the 8month sleep regression. He's never woken this often (every hour last night) not even as a newborn. I think that current strategy is to just go with the flow at the moment. I tried putting him down in his cot very sleepy after feeding for his morning nap at which point he woke up and held onto his feet smiling at me! GRRRRRR but so incredibly cute

Really silly point, but when people talk about patting them on the back, does this mean that they're lying on their front or are you holding them at the time?

Hope everyone else is doing okay. Mummamango, how is the Dr Jay method going?

Ruby - just came to the very clear realisation the other night when I was woken up by baby boy as he finished feeding, spat my nipple out, sighed contentedly and stated snoring cutely, that I will really miss this when it's finished. So have resolved to appreciate our last weeks of co-sleeping. But will be happy to see him sleeping soundly, all night in his own cot when it happens!

CairnT - Haven't stated Dr. Jay yet I'm afraid. Have been pointed in the direction of Andrea Grace and Gentle Sleep Solutions by a friend who sys it has worked really quickly for her so was thinking of reading that first before preparing a plan of attack - I want to feel very confident about it working and just go for it when I do.

I think the patting on the back means they are either lying on their side or their tummy.

So we finally started some 'sleep training' last night. Having gone to bed feeling sick with anxiety, it wasn't actually as bad as I thought it would be.
So finally, after reading through various 'gentle' methods, I decided that prolonging things too much with different stages would be confusing for my bubba and really just be about making me feel better about stopping the night feeds.
So, DH has taken this week off and in he went (instead of me) when DS woke up at 11:30. He shouted for an hour and a half. I sat in bed with the radio on and fingers in my ears, having promised I wouldn't go in unless DH asked me to (and DH having promised he would call me if he felt too stressed out).
He basically sat with him and reassured him and offered him water i one of those boob shaped bottles and picked him up for a cuddle a couple of times. Once all was quiet we all went to sleep.
Bub woke up once more at about 3am but just for a quick shout and, once Dad had popped the dummy back in, he was asleep again until morning (6:30) when we heard him chatting happily to himself.
Round two tonight. Wish me luck...

Mummamango.just wandering if you could give us an update on the night weaning on how it went??? I would love to know, as I am going to have to do this at some point!