Please help me change from a meat mindset.

[EIIa]

I am absolutely desperate to embrace a vegan/ vegetarian lifestyle.

I’m riddled with autoimmune diseases, ask a big meaty glutton, feel horrified and guilty at even handling meat ..... but I find it so hard

The problem is, I was brought up in a food obsessed house where meat or fish have been the centre to my meals and it’s so hard to step away from that Mindset.

We cook everything from scratch and don’t eat processed food - maybe a takeaway twice a year. Sometimes we eat qorn but not often as it’s still processed rubbish IMO. Don’t think I am interested in fakey meat substitutes because one to would be hankering a proper bacon butty instantly.

To make things worse, my cholesterol is quite high so eggs and cheese are no longer my buddies 😭

So I’ve been trying to work out what I could feasibly eat and all I can think of is a jacket potato and salad

By far though, my biggest obstacle is my mind. Can anybody relate?

@PinchOfVom

Thanks everybody, I’ve had a successful first day. It really helps that I totally adore falafel and hummus and also wicked burritos and bean salads which I had for dinner . So fairly say’

@coronabeer that’s a really great way of thinking about it - thanks

@FredBair
My health has fallen off a cliff. I need to dramatically turn it around and the meat needs to go for moral reasons but also I just need to really raise my nutrient intake. I found out last week that I also have high cholesterol- so that’s why I can’t rely on eggs and cheese which are basically my staple foods 😩

I need to stop dicking about and start eating properly

YY to the spices!

It's pastry & palm oil, etc, not eggs or meat, that contribute more to cholesterol levels. If you've got autoimmune stuff, gluten is frequently an issue, too.

I'm convinced that diet is a contributing cause to lots of modern illnesses. Anecdotally, though, it seems a lot of people are reluctant to consider that and would rather pop a pill than think about what they are putting into their bodies, day in, day out, 3 times (or more) per day.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that a change of diet will cure (or even help) everything. But what have you got to lose? If you eat more healthily, you'll be more healthy in general.

I think it can be difficult to change from a meat eating mindset to vegan all at once so maybe focus on moving towards vegetarian first of all and then vegan?

Eggs and cheese as part of a healthy diet should be fine, you probably just need to reduce your reliance on them and concentrate on pulling together a repertoire of nutrient rich foods including lots of healthy lentils, beans, grains and of course vegetables.

BBC Good food has lots of great, nutritionally rich veggie and vegan recipes.

When I feel like I need a really big vitamin/nutrient kick I go for this kind of recipe for lunch or dinner a couple of times a week. Lots of these are vegan or vegetarian.

If you don’t already, meal planning really helps. We’re a friendly bunch over here and people happily share recipes

@coronabeer

I'm convinced that diet is a contributing cause to lots of modern illnesses. Anecdotally, though, it seems a lot of people are reluctant to consider that and would rather pop a pill than think about what they are putting into their bodies, day in, day out, 3 times (or more) per day.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that a change of diet will cure (or even help) everything. But what have you got to lose? If you eat more healthily, you'll be more healthy in general.

If only it was so easy. As an auto immune sufferer if I had a £ for everyone who told me I could be cured if only I ate x or gave up y I would be rich. But I'd stiill have rheumatoid arthritis. I have tried them all as I don't want to dismiss a simple remedy that might work butI rather suspect you need to believe in them. If turmeric was the answer my Rheumatologist would have me on it. I have tried GF (properly) for six months. No change. Also I have osteoarthritis and have been advised to eat more protein. It's much harder to do without meat (especially for someone who doesn't like cheese).

@NotTheGrinchAgain Some great ideas there. I am not vegetarian and have no wish to give up meat but I have adult DC at home atm who is veggie and having ideas that can be adapted is useful. We are having veggie meals about 5 days out of 7 and the other two I adapt to suit.
If vegetarian food is healthier then just a partial or gradual change is a good start. and you can gradually add to the repertoire.

@FredBlair

First, I want to say I meant no offence.

One of the kind of things I was referring to was people suffering from, say, constipation and looking towards laxatives, rather than first trying an increase of fibre in the diet, which is often at the root of such problems. I know it's not always as simple as that, but lots of people eat awful diets and then wonder why they feel ill.

Doctors rarely study nutrition as part of their training. If they do, it is often just a few hours worth, rather than days - let alone weeks, months or years. You could often get just as helpful information about diet from a random stranger.

If you're interested, there was a study done regarding Rheumatoid arthritis which suggested a vegetarian diet might be helpful for some sufferers. But presumably you already know about this - in which case, my apologies.

" In a controlled, single-blind trial we tested the effect of fasting for 7-10 d, then consuming an individually adjusted, gluten-free, vegan diet for 3.5 mo, and then consuming an individually adjusted lactovegetarian diet for 9 mo on patients with RA. For all clinical variables and most laboratory variables measured, the 27 patients in the fasting and vegetarian diet groups improved significantly compared with the 26 patients in the control group who followed their usual omnivorous diet throughout the study period. One year after the patients completed the trial, they were reexamined. Compared with baseline, the improvements measured were significantly greater in the vegetarians who previously benefited from the diet (diet responders) than in diet nonresponders and omnivores."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10479237/

*As an aside, my ex suffers from a couple of auto-immune conditions. He asked for years about any dietary changes he might make and his consultant always was very dismissive of the idea. Eventually, however, he referred my ex to a dietician, who suggested a FODMAP diet. Ex decided (and I quote) "that wasn't what I wanted to hear". I think he was hoping to be told he should live henceforth off steak and chips. We never did find out if the diet would have worked, because he only stuck with it for a matter of days.

@coronabeer no offence taken. It's just a feature of AI disease that every none sufferer has a solution (a bit like pregnancy sickeness).

That article is very interesting, I read the full published paper.
One thing I couldn't find was the drug regimen of participants.
Certainly there was a measurable improvement in the fasting stage, which was pretty extreme.

patients were not permitted to eat foods that contained meat, fish, eggs, refined sugar or citrus fruits. Salt, strong spices, and preservatives were also avoided, as were alcoholic beverages, tea, and coffee
It does seem to show some evidence that fasting helps reduce inflamation though there was some placebo effect at work.

the diet responders were found to believe less in the effect of ordinary medical treatment than the diet nonresponders.
Little evidence of individual food intolerances which is reassuring as I have tried excluding various foods to no avail.

Food for thought .

Just do it.

When I went vegan, I bought a lot of books on the theme (Vegan Freak, The Eternal Treblinka, Becoming Vegan) and rereading certain passages of these helped me stayed focus while I was making the switch.

I've got a referral for Gousto @EIIa I'll post in the correct section though on Mumsnet

Matt Tebbit has an excellent serious at the moment

Hi all, just wanted to come back to say thanks for all the suggestions - I’m I the swing of it now

I’ve been eating from three books that I bought last week - see pic - one pot vegan is excellent. And because we cool so much anyway we have only had to buy the veg so it’s not been a hugely expensive experience like I was expecting.

Last night we made sweet and sour jackfruit for Chinese new year and although the recipe was fine, I’ve realised that I hate jackfruit. So once I got over my wobble, it was all fiiine !

@FredBair

I’m supposed to be on methotrexate for psoriatic arthritis but it’s had a terrible mental and emotional effect on me - I’m trying to dodge that by some radical changes.

I can also recommend Bosh cookbooks, as well as Linda McCartney's Family Kitchen and Fearne Cotton's Happy Vegan. Maybe pop to your library or download the library app (can't remember what it's called!) and have a browse before buying.

DH and I were also in a meat mindset for years but the cookbooks were a game changer for me. Really changed my style of cooking.

It does take time and there is nothing wrong with taking a gradual approach.

Not veggie, but rarely eat meat.

I don’t like the various fake meats. We started exploring recipes that never had meat in first place.

Loads of excellent authentic curry recipes.

Proper pasta sauces (Spaghetti a la Norma for example)

Bean dishes

Stir fries, noodle soups, Tom Yum, Laksas with tofu instead of chicken or fish.

Felafels and hoummous with pita.

Ditto Grilled halloumi. (Not often, for cholesterol purposes!)

Thai veg curries.

Risottos.

Delia’s Roast Mediterranean Veg Lasagne (I leave out most of the cheese she puts in)

Nigel Slaters Green Feast books are good.

I think everyone should also have a decent burger recipe as well as sometimes all you really want is a burger and chips. I know you want to be healthy but a bean or chickpea home made patty and a portion controlled amount of oven chips/ wedges is exactly what is needed.

It might not be grown up but it will hit the spot, especially with lots of gherkins

I started following Earthling Ed and watching his videos and it completely changed my mindset.

I come from a meat oriented family and didn't even know anyone who was vegetarian at the time. I was vegan within 6 months and still am 5 years later. I found him to be very refreshing. Educational and factual but also kind and engaging.

When you've been brought up with meat and dairy being the main components in every-single-meal it can be difficult initially to think of alternatives so things can feel restrictive or repetitive at first. As you learn it does get better though and you become more adventurous and educated about food. I can say now in all honesty I eat and try far, far more foods than I ever did as a meat eater.

Something that also helped me was the realisation that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Small changes are better than no changes.

But maybe the biggest thing was the realisation that some vegan food is shit. But so are some non vegan foods. I didn't like everything I tried as a meat eater, but that didn't stop me eating meat. Yet so many people have a crap vegan meal and write off vegan food or tell themselves they can't do it. Don't be afraid to try things and if you don't like them, try something else.

Best of luck!