Do you consider palm oil to be vegan?

[JamesAnderson]

I've been reading on my local Facebook group about the McDonald's restaurants blocks by vegans and somebody mentioned palm oil.

Now of course I understand that palm oil isn't an animal/animal product, but if produced irresponsibly can lead to the devastation of the habitat of many endangered species.

So is this enough for you to want to source products which use responsibly produced palm oil (does this even exist?) or do you consume it anyway because it's not itself animal/product.

For full disclosure, I'm an omnivore and until now hadn't even given palm oil a second thought.

I had a quick Google and here's the WWF's view on palm oil

www.wwf.org.uk/updates/8-things-know-about-palm-oil

I don't really see the point of your post and especially your question "is this is enough for us " @JamesAnderson

You questionshows ignorance on the matter, but good on you for asking.

We are constantly surrounded by product and behaviours that directly and indirectly harm animals.

Every new drug on the market needs to be tested on two different animals, one of which need to be a mammal.

Bio-Ethanol has destroyed a region the size of Switzerland in the Cerrado region of Brazil killing all the animals .

Our lack of care for climate change cause terrible bush fires in Australia , in the 2019-2020 bushfires we had, it is calculated that 3 billions animals died or were harmed, mammals, reptiles, snakes, birds, frogs, ...
Even agriculture damages soil and water causing indirect death.

However the thought of the 55 billions animals atrociously killed every year in slaughterhouse is somehow more disturbing to me because it is avoidable. By being an omnivore you have directly caused the pain, suffering, fear and death of many animals. So don't come here on the vegan board to lecture us on palm oil, which most of us don't eat in any form because many follow a whole food plant based - but maybe considered that whatever is in that tray you have in your fridge, died with and equal fear and suffering that the animals killed to clear land for palm oil.

I don't want to get into a bunfight with anyone. IMO the world is in a terrible state, there are too many huge companies which don't seem to care about anything apart from their profits. Also too many people who believe the rubbish peddled by advertisers and go for the cheapest foods regardless of their income.

I haven't eaten palm oil ( or hydrogenated fats) in products for a long time. They are both bad for our health.

I eat an organic diet which is vegan but I'm not fanatical about it.

Oh I agree about the atrocious testing of drugs on animals, I have had many discussions on here about using herbal remedies soooo many people forget the tests involved in their idolisation of "science" .

And the fact that so many prescribed and OTC drugs don't work anyway. Or actually do harm.

Palm oil is the most efficient crop of its kind and boycotting often leads to replacing it with a less efficient version. Some people can do this conscientiously, but most will just push the drive up for another kind of crop.
Just look at the history of Borneo. Initially the forest was cut down for timber. Then cocoa plants were put in the razed forests. This was the main crop until the 90s demonising of cocoa. The farmers lost money by boycotting and weren't helped to make their practice sustainable. They switched to palm oil which wad more profitable.
So the logical thing is to support sustainable palm oil practice, otherwise we could see a switch to the next profitable crop.
Having lived in Malaysia I understand we need to support people to be sustainable. They don't live extravagant lives like we do and it should be our priority to support sustainable farming to support their families.

I try to avoid processed food altogether. Where that's not possible, I try to avoid palm oil unless it's sustainable. But that's personal preference, not because I think palm oil isn't vegan.

Karma that's the right approach imo. It kind of annoys me how vegans are somehow expected to be environmental in every possible way. Supporting sustainable practice is everybody's business- not just vegans to shoulder.

@TheSlayer

Palm oil is the most efficient crop of its kind and boycotting often leads to replacing it with a less efficient version. Some people can do this conscientiously, but most will just push the drive up for another kind of crop. Just look at the history of Borneo. Initially the forest was cut down for timber. Then cocoa plants were put in the razed forests. This was the main crop until the 90s demonising of cocoa. The farmers lost money by boycotting and weren't helped to make their practice sustainable. They switched to palm oil which wad more profitable. So the logical thing is to support sustainable palm oil practice, otherwise we could see a switch to the next profitable crop. Having lived in Malaysia I understand we need to support people to be sustainable. They don't live extravagant lives like we do and it should be our priority to support sustainable farming to support their families.

100% agree with this - I actually have part of a farm in the tropics, only a small one but we do grow some of the palm oil trees. Also in a country with significant and shameful forestation. Palm oil is extremely productive and absolutely blows most other crops out of the water when looking at oil produced per hectare. It's cheap and it's grown because it's efficient. If we were to switch to something else for oil, we'd need significantly more hectares. What we really need is regulation and counter corruption. People need steady, dependable jobs and proper pay so as not to rely on bribes.

It's definitely vegan, the question is is it ethical and that answer is often not (depends on source)

@motogogo

It's definitely vegan, the question is is it ethical and that answer is often not (depends on source)

This. Just because something is vegan doesn''t make it ethical or kind to the world/animal environments. For me, veganism encompasses trying to be sure that what I eat doesn't destroy the habitats of other living beings, not just dietary/clothing veganism.

Well that was robust intelligent engagement by the op🙄🤨.

Think it roughly translates as, 'I've gotcha dum(sic) veganz.