Vegan starting Preschool

[SJ1204]

Hi everyone,

Soon my daughter who was raised vegan from birth will be starting a preschool. The thing I'm slightly worried about is what they are going to teach her. I talk about the importance of being vegan but I know they aren't going to. They are going to tell her all about zoo's and farms in positives ways and that's not going to really teach her what is happening. I don't want to be at war with schools etc but not sure how to go about this. Also some places won't allow packed lunch so I've had to cancel them out completely. There vegan meals they say they have don't seem very nice and I don't want a hungry child. Any thoughts on this or experiences?

I think the main thing to prioritise is the food provision as that is clearly important to you.

I don't think you can control narratives around zoos/farms, and actually I think it's healthy for them to know there are different points of view. You won't be able to control the messages she recieves for her whole life and it sounds a bit too controlling for my liking.

You might find she's completely disinterested in zoos/farms anyway.

It will be good for her to know there are different viewpoints ....even from this early age..... that way when she is older...she can make an informed decision for herself.

@murbblurb

Watch it - you are sounding like the religious zealots who don't want their kids exposed to anything that doesn't meet their world view. Farms produce food , zoos protect endangered species and educate about the importance of treading lightly.

You have total control now but that won't last forever. Make sure your child doesn't remember you as closed minded.

I agree with this. Also, they certainly won’t lecture or teach your child about farms or zoos in the way that you think. It’s mainly about teaching animal names & sounds (which I’m sure you’ll already have been doing) and that cows/ sheep etc live on the farm, which they do. They might say things like “cows give us milk, sheep give us wool” stuff like that....which again, is true.

You are going to need to discuss this with the preschool, and eventually school. Lots of children's literature for example mentions farms and zoos (usually with all sorts of animals living happily side by side). They might grow caterpillars into butterflies. Food obviously... She's going to see what other children have. Toy animals.

As they grow older, all children should learn the significance of farms and the ethical issues around zoos. But at three, they seem to believe that cows and sheep are friends.

(Make sure you teach her to say no to any offered food until old enough to check... Milk is often given for example. And have alternative treats available in case she brings home birthday sweets.)

My children were accidentally given meat/dairy most weeks. Because mine eat bangers and mash,hot dogs, fish fingers, pepperoni pizza etc (all plant based) it was harder for staff as DD and DS could distinguish between what was meat and what wasn't.

How old is your DC, OP?

If you’re genuinely having conversations with a 2-3-year-old about “the important of being vegan”, does your DC actually understand this in the context of environmental issues, climate change, freedom of choice, etc?

It might be best to hold back on the gatekeeping, as pp have said, and let her hear different viewpoints to help her have a more rounded approach to life. And maybe focus more on fun things, rather than “what is really happening” in zoos and farms. It all sounds a bit joyless to me.

"Farms raise animals". That's the best you could do, really?

OP, the key is teaching your child critical thinking from a young age. So what if the school teaches her one thing or another, show her how to think for herself and teach her compassion.

Raising a lacto-veggie child. Live next to a conventional pig/chicken farm. We visit the farm every day. We have permission from the farmer. I show her the conditions the animals are kept in. Without prompt, she's been sad and confused every time she sees the animals, from when she was six months old. But she still insists on going every day to say good morning to them.

Your child needs to be exposed to a variety of views towards such things in order to decide what is important to them.

I think as parents we need to remember that our role isn’t to create a “mini me” but to encourage independent and critical thinking. Just because something is your view doesn’t mean it needs to be your child’s view.

I wouldn't worry too much about zoos or farms. They do crop up (scuse the pun) in various picture books but DD has not been given any information about them being good or bad.

You can ask if your child can bring in cartons of Alpro growing up milk in place of the school milk - our school was happy to accommodate this. Ours was also happy to talk about menu options with us.

There's a group on FB called UK Vegetarian and Vegan Parents which is helpful on dealing with school.

I don't know if this will help or be relevant, but my son is autistic and developmentally delayed, he's really funny with certain foods and after a conversation with his ta and the SEN teacher after he started flat out refusing to eat at schook, they are really accommodating to him, warming things up that he won't eat cold because of textures etc. If your child has dietary requirements then the teachers can be really really helpful, such as explaining to places that don't allow packed lunch that your daughter won't eat what is offered and you are concerned about her being hungry, sometimes they can Make allowances.

As for Zoo and farm visits, I personally wouldn't want my just turned 4 year old told about all the gory details of things, trips to the zoo and farm at that age are usually very basic like naming baby animals and things. If she grows to love animals it might help her make an informed decision about veganism when she is older. Or if you are really against it you could refuse to consent to the trips which does seem a bit unfair on your child but ultimately you are her parent and they are your choices. Schools can be much more understanding than you expect them to be sometimes.

I think as parents we need to remember that our role isn’t to create a “mini me” but to encourage independent and critical thinking. Just because something is your view doesn’t mean it needs to be your child’s view.

Sage advice, which is never given to omni parents raising their child to eat meat.

Children of vegans will see their parents modelling independent thought: doing something different to the rest of society in pursuit of their own values.

I think accepting that your child will inevitably accidentally eat some animal products (friends’ houses, haribo given out on birthdays, parties, etc) may make things easier to deal with. It has happened with my vegetarian/pescatarian children.

School lunches often have really grown-up vegan dishes so I agree that packed lunches are easier. Hard that you can’t include any nut products in most Uk educational settings.

In addition, don’t worry too much about learning about animals etc. I know that here lots of Muslims attend Jewish and catholic schools- they grow to know the differences between what they do/believe and what some others do. It’s not a bad thing to grow in tolerance and acceptance of difference, especially as we don’t live in a vegan culture.

@littleredberries

"Farms raise animals". That's the best you could do, really?

OP, the key is teaching your child critical thinking from a young age. So what if the school teaches her one thing or another, show her how to think for herself and teach her compassion.

Raising a lacto-veggie child. Live next to a conventional pig/chicken farm. We visit the farm every day. We have permission from the farmer. I show her the conditions the animals are kept in. Without prompt, she's been sad and confused every time she sees the animals, from when she was six months old. But she still insists on going every day to say good morning to them.

Why have you been taking your child to a pig/chicken farm every day from the age of six months, where she gets “sad and confused every time”?

Surely you’ve made the point to her by now and she doesn’t need to experience these negative feelings every day?

Your child is going to be exposed to all sorts of views and opinions over the years. That's what will make them grow up to make their own minds up. My family was vegetarian when I was growing up. When my siblings got older they chose to eat meat once they got to choose their own food out of the house. I chose to stay vegetarian. It helped massively that there was no pressure to conform and we could make our own decisions.

One thing you'll have to decide is how strict you will be if your child wants a bag of sweets or slice of birthday cake at a party or asks you if they can eat what their friends are eating. We had a 'vegetarian at home' rule but we could choose what we ate at friend's house/ school etc.

I think most nurseries will be able to provide vegan food. We have 2 vegan DC and school catering has never been a problem.

I think the other thing to be mindful of is not make sure you're not teaching your child that other people's choices surrounding food are 'wrong', just that people do things differently and different families eat different kinds of foods.

You’re going to have to relax and realise that the world is further from your own view.

Farms and zoos exist. Without zoos the conservation of animals would be impossible and some species would actually have died out. Whether you like it or not, farms raise animals for meat and animal bi-products, and the majority of her friends will be tucking into some kind of meat-based dish in front of her at most mealtimes.

You can discuss the menu choices with the school but TBH I think you will have to accept that it is inevitable that she will at some point consume some animal based foods and may even decide that she doesn’t want to remain a vegan as she grows up.

When people post on here that their young children want to be vegetarian they are encouraged not to stand in their way, the same needs to apply the other way around.

I brought my DC up as vegetarians (ovo lacto) and they both went to nursery from 6 months. They key for me was to discuss it with the nursery right from the start (in my case, before they were even eating much solid food) and find one where they seemed to understand and want to accommodate. Mine were the only vegetarians in the nursery and primary school, but staff were understanding and happy to adjust what was on offer for us. The most difficult aspect for me re food at nursery/school was the 'hidden' animal products (gelatine/animal fats etc) which I'm sure will be more of an issue as a vegan. Again, the key for me was finding a nursery where the staff wanted to understand and happy to speak to me about the food on offer. By the time mine were in primary school they had a really good understanding of this themselves. Mine often came home with packets of haribo etc when it was someone's birthday (luckily the nursery/school policy on sweets was to send them home) so I usually kept a couple of veggie friendly packs of sweets in the cupboard so we could swap them. Again, by primary school mine knew what they could eat and usually gave the haribo to another friend.

I expect you will find quite a few parents of other children who claim to be concerned about you restricting your DC's diet/not allowing them to make their own decisions etc. My advice is to smile and ignore- as a pp said, no one ever seems to have a problem with people making the decision to eat meat on behalf of their DC, but the sort of person who wants to lecture you will not listen to the other side of the argument.

@Warmduscher as I said, she insists on saying good morning to the animals. But she knows the difference between the horses enjoying the pastures and the pigs stuck in pens.
The pigs really respond to our visits as the only other contact they get is from the farmers. We are allowed to bring them carrots, and she enjoys feeding them. My 15m old intuitively understands what is going on, as she sees the older groups leave and the younger ones come in. She still insists on saying hello.
Furthermore, the whole village can hear transportation day as the pigs scream. It's unavoidable.

You parent the way YOU want to. Etc

@KarmaViolet

I think as parents we need to remember that our role isn’t to create a “mini me” but to encourage independent and critical thinking. Just because something is your view doesn’t mean it needs to be your child’s view.

Sage advice, which is never given to omni parents raising their child to eat meat.

Children of vegans will see their parents modelling independent thought: doing something different to the rest of society in pursuit of their own values.

Oh yes! As a meat eater I am completely incapable of independent thought.

What a first world problem. I guarantee you OP that your child will learn about zoos and farms over their life and visit them too!

Is this like having a vegan cat?

Slightly different but relevant. I am an athiest. In primary school.my ds believed in god, wanted to go to church. ..i supported him, he wanted to be christened..now at bigh school believes its nonsense.

I supported him to make his own mind up.. i am not suggesting you give your dc meat but they will see and hear others opinions

Raising a lacto-veggie child. Live next to a conventional pig/chicken farm. We visit the farm every day. We have permission from the farmer. I show her the conditions the animals are kept in. Without prompt, she's been sad and confused every time she sees the animals, from when she was six months old. But she still insists on going every day to say good morning to them.

This is the most unintentionally hilarious paragraph ever written.

I've been a nursery practitioner for over 27 years. We happen to have a pond in our setting where we've had lots of frogs appear, mate then leave the tadpoles. So we have been doing life cycles.

Some places I've worked in have done farm topics from children's visits out with nursery.

Some places are better than others for food. My old old old nursery has a great chef who creates amazing foods for the children.

My current kitchen relies on the local authority. But we have a well stocked nursery kitchen with an allergies cupboard for gluten/dairy/nut free. We know which children are vegetarian or are no pork.

Children will make up their own minds about things but at preschool age, I find them very accepting of others having different diets.