OMG - decided to move back to UK. Kent? Surrey? Schools???? Head hurting already, please help. Please please please. And breathe. Anyone?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

OK, Been out of UK for nearly 10 years. Decided to move back. Want to be there in time for ds to start secondary school, ie September 2010.

Lots of Q & compölications - any help or thoughts?

Area

thinking Kent or Surrey. Need to be max 40 mins commute to London (Waterloo). Need to be south or river as have family in Dorset, Wimbledon & NW Kent.

Want good secondary schools (& primary too).

Schools. Making my head hurt already.

How do you find out what's a good school? I can't make head nor tail of league tables. I mean a school having 50% A-C sounds pretty dismal to me, but is that not condiered good or OK? I take OFSTED reports with pinch of salt. How on earth do you find what are good schools, especially as we're not in country and can't visit.

WHich is better school wise, Kent or Surrey? Does Surrey also have grammar schools?

I heard Surrey state schools maybe not so good as so many in. schools?

To start in September 2010, we have to buy (& live in ?) house in desired area by October 2009, is that right?

If we aren't in place by then, we go on waiting list/get allocated to school we don't want, is that right? It's really hurting my head, because ideally I wanted to move just before start of school, so even with 1.5 years notice, this won't be possible will it?

Finally, ds1 is 1 year out of sinc, ie he is in year 3 when he should be in year 4. Would he be able to stay 'out of sync' or will he be forced to join officially correct cohort?

Shite, it's just too difficult.

We live in Ewell and I would second everything Ewe has said, we are only at the primary stage though, DS only starts in Sept 09 so no direct experience but have heard good things about all schools mentioned. I know someone who has got into Sutton Grammar and is v v pleased with it.

I really like Ewell, has a nice feel (although shops could do with a revamp) and is v convenient for all areas you mention. WE also have family in Wimbledon (25 min drive) and Kent (50 - 60 mins).

Also thinking Ernest you will have UK trained teachers at your international school presumably. Is there anyone you could approach there to specifically help tutor/prepare ds for the 11+ etc?

I've made an appointment to speak to head on Friday with view to moving him to Grade 4. Seems such a shame to push him up a year & force him to cram swot and study for 11+, to make him catch up on years of formal education, when he's already got so much on, especially if you doesn't get in anyway, due to being a late applicant. Will look into the extra support/11+ prep too, thanks for suggestion zzzen.

trying to speak to dh about it. He reckons for ds to start on Spetember 2010, we're looking at moving June 2010, which means house hunting Feb/March 2010, and maybe job hunting around end of this year. I'm telling him we can't apply till we move. He is just typically lah lah lah, it'll all work out.

I feel like screaming in panic and he just says 'there ,must be a way' as we're in unusual circs, it'll be ok. I'm trying to convince him, we need to be looking for jobs/houses if not now, certainly this year, not next. sigh.

hairyMcclairy, thanks, will look into Ewell. Maybe it makes sences to avoid grammar schools/ 11+ altogehter?

If you're thinking about the 11+ you need to be VERY careful what area you're thinking about. Where we live, for example, if you pass the exam, you automatically get a grammar school place. In some other areas, round Tunbridge Wells for example, you not only have to pass, but you have to pass with top marks to be sure of a place.

Tunbridge Wells is not so bad for boys and grammars.(If you dont get into Judd or Skinners on marks there is always Tunbridge Wells Boys Grammar)
But for girls there is a very small catchment for Tunbridge Girls Grammar (2 miles ish, bloody better not get any smaller, I am 1.6 miles away) unless you get high enough scores for Tonbridge Grammar or Weald of Kent(Weald doesnt take Tunbridge Wells side generally because we have TWGGS whereas Sevenoaks side doesnt have a grammar)
Arrrggghhh its a mine field.
Find somewhere with a performing well comp and buy the house next door.

Ernest - is your DS doing IB PYP?

BA, yes he is. Do you know it?

My sister's children are doing it at the International School of Amsterdam and previously at the International School of Madrid. My elder nephew will be 11 in July and moving up to secondary in September 2009.

FWIW, my nephew is both (very) bright and also well-challenged by the PYP. I am very, very certain that he would be UK grammar school material (obviously he would need specific coaching for the 11+) and I think the IB PYP is a very good primary programme.

I think you are doing the right thing by asking the headmaster about moving your DS1 up a year. It isn't generally a good idea to be "out of year" IMVHO.

maybe, but it's literally 1 week. he isn't big for his age either, and in his class that he's the eldest in, he's one of the smallest. dread to think how teey he's going to look and be the very youngest when he moves up. His teacher and head teacher both agreed he was better off in the lower grade

I guess it also partly means what you mean by a 'good school'! Do you want the grammar school system or is state comprehensive, but with a good reputation OK?

I live in Merton Park, (SW19 but just not called Wimbledon!) and we have excellent primary schools here.

My sons both went/go to Rutlish, (DS1 is now at Esher 6th form college,) which in years gone by has been a terrible school.

We made the decision to send our boys there on the basis that:

a) the new head/management team has been doing a great job over the last 10 years to turn it round

b) it is our local school and I am a firm believer in children going to school in their own community

DS1's year (last year's year 11) had the best GSCE results in the school's history - average or just above average for the London Borough of Merton though; he left with 10 GCSEs (4 As and 3 Bs in there). The grades he got could have been improved upon, undoubtedly, but that is more about my son than the school! I was highly impressed by the support offered to their GSCE students. As well as providing extra revision sessions at lunchtime and after school, they also ran classes on Saturday and during school holidays. A real commitment to the students.

DS2 is now in year 9 and seems to be doing very well.

Without knowing more about your son and his specific educational requirements (which are obviously a bit different from the norm!), I can't say if I would recommend the school, although I would certainly say you should consider it if you wanted to move to this area.

Merton Park/Wimbledon is, as I'm sure you know, a lovely place to be - and transport links to town are excellent. We're also very close to the A3/M25 so links to places further afield (traffic permitting!) are also good.

Paddock Wood is a nono for many Grammar schools (so we have been informed, although this is for a DD) unless you get awarded a Governer's place it is a real struggle as doesn't fall into eithe T.Wells, Tonbridge or Maidstone catchment - which is a PITA.

Kent have a policy of keeping DC in peer groups.

Also 11+ exams are now early in the Autumn term.

For the 11+, please bear in mind, it is a test that many children have been tutored/prepared for for 2 yrs +. A GF already has had her yr 4 DD doing past papers since Sept! (madness imho). Some goof friends have just moved to USA for 3 yrs and will be back 2 months before theri DD has to take 11+ they have accepted that she will not be ready as she will not have had an education with the sole intention of passing 11+ (or CE etc).

just good state school. Only talking grammar cos A. Kent is an option as fil still living there and B both DH & I went to the grammar.

I agree, it's important for me that ds lives near his school. This is definately one of the problems we are experiencing atm without any doubt.

Dh doesn't want to be in Wimbledon (his sister lives there) dunno if that's why or just cos he used to live there.

carshalton has been mentioned a few times. Anyone know it?

Your first priority needs to be to find out if ds is grammar school material. If he is then good places for grammar schools are Bromley, Tonbridge, Kingston, Sutton, Dartford, Bexley Croydon. I have listed these in an approximate order as Bromley grammars schools are more difficult to get into than Bexley for example. Some grammar schools you don't have to be that close to to get in .eg. St. Olave's in Bromley there is no catchment area - you simply have to be in the top 100ish that take the test. All the local autorities produce booklets which will tell you the exact criteria which will be applied.

Imo Surrey is the best place to go if your child will not pass the 11+. The comprehensives there are good and much better for a reasonably bright and willing child than most of the alternatives that the 11+ areas can offer. George Abbott near Guildford has a good reputation.

interesting Q - how do we find that out? Get him to do a sample test? WHat % should we be hoping for? Dh is convinced as he went that ds would walk it, but all this talk of coaching and prep for 11+ is scary. Is it really that difficult?
How do you know if ds is grammar school material?

I'd get some of the 11+ books and see how he gets on with them (NFER, Bond, WHSMith .... I think!). Bear in mind he is not year 6 yet By the time he gets to year 6 he should be getting 90% ish for the top grammar schools and maybe more like 70% for others .... I'm only speaking for areas my dcs have taken tests in so others may differ. NFER administer the real tests in our area so they give a good indication. Non-verbal reasoning takes a bit of getting used to so don't be worried if he doesn't twig them at first.

By the way ... do tell your dh to get his head out of the sand. If you don't apply for the place in October 2009 then your chances of being able to choose a school for your ds are non-existent in some areas.

I hesitate to link to this forum because there are a LOT of very intense parents of INCREDIBLY driven and coached children posting on it, but if you read between the lines there is a lot of very useful information too here Just take it with a large pinch of salt!

I assume private until a place comes up isn't an option ? Just thinking you could probably persuade them more easily to keep him a year out, keep him in a prep school until 13 if needs be or until a place came up at a school of your choice. Most prep schools are keen to take new Year 6 and 7's, especially if normal transfer age is 11+

Oh there is Cranbrook school, which you have to live in one of the villages to get into that takes a 13 + intake. Google it, tooks lovely.

ooh that does look lovely doesn't it? have to check out commute.

Also looking at Carshalton

liza, that's an idea I hadn't considered - need to look at all options, ta

Commute from Cranbrook (local stations are Staplehurst, Etchingham, Headcorn. Bit further away is Tonbridge, but catchment for school is 6 miles from the school, by public road) is just over an hour to London Bridge. i think Staplehurst-London Bridge is 1 hr 5mins. Tonbridge much faster, but would have a bit of a drive to get there.

Cranbrook School is lovely, and i know of a very nice house you could rent within the Cranbrook catchment area

Carshalton is nice enough but the trainline only goes to Victoria and it isn't a particularly good line in terms of regularity of trains. Carshalton Boys isn't the best school as far as I know but it is getting better, link here to results but the lowlights are... 5 + A* - C (inc Maths & English) improved from 19% to 28% (a rise of 14% in 2 years)

They seem to be less academic than other local school which may or may not suit your DC. However Sutton Grammar would be an option from Carshalton and the girls schools in the area are very good (St Philomenas and Nonsuch and Carshalton Girls is getting better and better I hear).

Surrey will not let him be in the wrong year.

Surrey schools are fairly dire, I'm afraid. There are a few that are better but have very tight catchments.

ok, been on bloody computer all day.

so, say for example carshalton, does that mean we're in the catchment for Sutton Grammar and Wallington Grammar?

Say we narrow it to NE ish Surrey - I'd like a villagey feel, certainly to be able to go for a walk iyswim, not just wander the streets.

Good schools, both primary and secondary important.

Anyone know - when will ds start school in UK born Nov '03? Can't decide if he will be in Year 1 in Sept '09 or '10??

Thanks guys

He'd be in reception now, so year 1 sep 2009