OMG - decided to move back to UK. Kent? Surrey? Schools???? Head hurting already, please help. Please please please. And breathe. Anyone?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

OK, Been out of UK for nearly 10 years. Decided to move back. Want to be there in time for ds to start secondary school, ie September 2010.

Lots of Q & compölications - any help or thoughts?

Area

thinking Kent or Surrey. Need to be max 40 mins commute to London (Waterloo). Need to be south or river as have family in Dorset, Wimbledon & NW Kent.

Want good secondary schools (& primary too).

Schools. Making my head hurt already.

How do you find out what's a good school? I can't make head nor tail of league tables. I mean a school having 50% A-C sounds pretty dismal to me, but is that not condiered good or OK? I take OFSTED reports with pinch of salt. How on earth do you find what are good schools, especially as we're not in country and can't visit.

WHich is better school wise, Kent or Surrey? Does Surrey also have grammar schools?

I heard Surrey state schools maybe not so good as so many in. schools?

To start in September 2010, we have to buy (& live in ?) house in desired area by October 2009, is that right?

If we aren't in place by then, we go on waiting list/get allocated to school we don't want, is that right? It's really hurting my head, because ideally I wanted to move just before start of school, so even with 1.5 years notice, this won't be possible will it?

Finally, ds1 is 1 year out of sinc, ie he is in year 3 when he should be in year 4. Would he be able to stay 'out of sync' or will he be forced to join officially correct cohort?

Shite, it's just too difficult.

We live in a lovley part of Surrey (not far from Hampton Court and Esher), commute to Waterloo is between 30-40 mins depending on train. I have family in Hampshire/Dorset border and it is an easy drive (around 1 hourish) Several grammar schools nearby in Kingston and several independant. Primary state are very good, secondaries are good and apparently improving.

Applications go in the Oct of the year before they start so yes for Sept 2010 you need to apply (and therefore be at the address) by Oct 2009. No idea about the "out of sync" business I'm afraid, but I would imagine they wouldn't up him a year if it would mean him struggling.

I think if you can narrow down the area and then put a call out about specific schools on here you often find mners who know about them hth a bit.

omg - that is sudden ! For Surrey the secondary admissions deadline(and primary come to think of it for Reception and year 3) was just before October half term for next September, so yes you would need to be in situ by then or wait it out. Some areas of Kent still have 11+ to a grammar system, but Surrey not, and results were known before Christmas so you'd need to check when the application/exam was done. I suspect ds1 would have to move ahead, they are pretty strict on birth dates. We're on Surrey/Kent border and secondaries are variable and large but mostly ok ish. They are implementing catchments more rigorously now though. Our local trains go into Victoria, London Bridge and Charing Cross (via Waterloo East).

Thanks CoV. Chicken and egg really, as will choose area depending on school, ie if no good school won't move there.

But the system being as it is, it makes it so difficult. We planned to move next year, say easter time, but this means we miss the application deadline. Actually don't really want to move till mid summer, but with the school application situation this is impossible. It's annoying, as when we moved last time, we could organise the school months in advance of the move, and it was so much less complicated, but not being able to organise school until you move means essentially months and months are wasted. It is stressing me out so much

Tunbridge Wells Is my local area.
Claremont is a good school. St Johns and St James are too, though larger.
Secondary schools are either Grammar, Church or rubbish.
I live here
I would think that your ds would be put in the correct year for his age, something to do with the age he is for secondary school? Look into that.

Be warned - Kent still has the 11+!

I can talk about education in Kent if you like - ask away!

I live in the Canterbury/Faversham/Sittingbourne area and I used to commute to London so I know it's doable.

dh grew up in Kent & went to Gravesend Grammar School for Boys. He would consider this school, but doesn't want to live in Gravesham.

But then would this mean we're out of the catchment area? It's doing my head in.

I asked about ds year group at LEA, they said it's up to individual school. But how can we get an gareement on this, if we don't live there and therefore con't apply? If we had the OK to keep him 1 year down, then we would be in the UK with months to spare to apply for places for him to start in sep 2011, but if he has to stay in correct year group, we will be there too late to apply for 2010.

Aaarrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhh

I live in Epsom which has good secondary schools - Glyn in particular is an all boys secondary and 2006 topped the Surrey league tables for KS3 results. Also, as COV says, Kingston has grammar schools as does the nearby Sutton. Rosebery is the all girls secondary school here and also has good exam results - 90% of pupils get A-C at GCSE and the average A level results are ABB. Most primary schools are good in Epsom (Stamford Green and Wallace Fields) and there are lots of private options if that is open to you.

Train is 35 mins to Waterloo and also has direct trains to Victoria and London Bridge.

Easy to Wimbledon (15mins on train or just up the A3) and it's about 5-10 mins from M25 so good links to everywhere really.

Will schools not make exceptions in your circumstances? The system does make it hard for people living here, let alone those abroad!

heres the online admissions thing I think he would have to be put in correct year.

Epsom was 1 possible on list. It just feels like sticking a pin in a map blind.

The school thing is a total headache. I looked at the league tables. They don't really mean much to me. Annoyingly don't specify if ind. or state - def only state schools.

If we choose an area based on school, but we're applying after deadline, then we don't get in & we're stuck with ds either having shit school or long journey. htf are you supposed to do this?

Like I said, If school agrees to let him stay in current (1year lower) cohort, life much easier, but then they have to promise him place a year or more before, which they won't do.

If he goes to correct cohort, we miss application deadline & he will be miles behind peers, and is also late August b'day, sp doubly hard.

How do you work out which is a good school and if there is a town where the schools are not oversubscribed, or there are more than 1 or 2 good schools? How do you find out the catchment area for a school?

About the year group thing. I think it MIGHT be possible for him to stay in the year he's in at Primary school, but theone person I know who's child was out of year had a MASSIVE fight to stop them putting him back with his peers at Secondary school transition. Right up to the summer before they were saying he would have to go straight into year 8. So check this out very carefully. It would pribably be easier for him to go back with his peers in Primary and catch up with extra coaching or something than miss the first year of Secondary.

Around here the catchment areas for schools is 3 miles within the school and you can take entrance exams as they both have a selective element to them. Around here there are a lot of good school, Nonsuch is another good girls school and Sutton Grammar for Boys is very good and wouldn't be too far, especially if you lived in Ewell (between Epsom and Sutton).

You do seem to be in a real pickle, you have my sympathies! Are you coming over to look at different areas? If so, would def come and have a look around Epsom as think it will tick a lot of your boxes.

yes, I realise putting him up a year is easiest in this respect, but it seems such a shame, as he is definitely most suited to the year group he is currently in, and will effectively be 2 if not 3 years behind his correct year group Have nevertheless made appointment with current head to discuss moving him now

But then we're back in the posotion of being (very) late applicants. Is he doomed?

I don't think he's doomed (!) but I'm not sure what you'd do about the 11+ if you're not in the area.

Also are you sure he's be in the wrong year in an English school - where are you now? You may find that the years aren't on a par here and there, if you see what I mean!

What sort of things is he doing? I have a year 3 boy - I could tell you whether they are roughly at the some level.

I live in NW kent and teach in grammar school there. Ask away!

You could commute from Tonbridge or Paddock Wood to Waterloo in 40 minutes or so, and be in the catchment area for the grammar schools in both Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells. But if your DS1 is a year behind, will he realistically be grammar school material?

I thought it was possible to take the Kent 11+ from outside the area and then move into area if your child gets in. I know anecdotally of a couple of London families who are planning to try this, so it must be possible without a local address.

also - even if you live in the catchment area for a particular school there is no guarantee that you will get in if the year group all in catchment is large. a pain but true.

What year was your DS1 born in?

Trust me if you live in SE London and even Essex you can get into NW Kent grammar schools - many NW Kent kiddies don't meet the grade (inc my DS btw)

OK, I am sure he should be in Year 5 now, and start secondary school Yr 7 in 2010. He was born end August 1999.

He is out of sync/behind because he went to school in Switzerland, where they don't start till age 7 & have different year group cut off (March I think) He is now in International School, grade 3 in Germany, he should be in grade 4, but as he has only had 2 years in school and is late August birthday, we chose to put him in this grade, which, if he was born 1 week later, he would be in anyway

I do think he is grammar school material as he is (imo) very bright, and lacking the school experience/formal education is due to the Swiss late start rather than a lack of intelligence iyswim. & like I said if his birthday was 1 week later he would be in that year group anyway. It just seems so unfirtunate & unfair.

As you say Panda, even living in area is no guarantee, and we will be late applicants, so I guess our chances are screwed. It has turned from being exciting to a total headache in 1 morning!

You could ask for him to be put up a year in his International School now so that he has the chance to catch up?

yes he'd currently be year 5. As he is on the younger side with a different educational experience you may have a case to argue. Are there any psychologists who could do a report for you to back the case up or even a UK trained teacher at his current school?

If you came back in time for Oct 09 he'd do a year or so at primary so apply for secondary but maybe have a chance for assessment as to his readiness to move or maybe do Year 6 again. Otherwise if you are likely to have to go to the back of the queue due to timing anyway I would n't rush the process. Identify where you want to go and then speak to LEA/schools individually.

11+ is based on English, Maths and Verbal/Non Verbal reasoning and he'd need practce to pass even if bright. You may find some examples online or look at Bond's to get a feel for what standard you are aiming at and whether it would be realistic.

sorry I didn't mean to put a dampener on, just trying to be realistic! HOpe you find a solution to the dilemma.

Ernest, you have a bit of time to bring him up to the level he should be at to go into the class his age would destine him for. English and any other literary subjects will not be a huge problem for a smart bilingual child IMO - I would investigate where he should be in maths and get to work on that.

NO idea about resolving the school/house/commute thing. Eek. How about mobilising some of your family there on the ground? Could they offer you any advice?