Bus driver refused me boarding in wheelchair

[MobilityCat]

I was refused boarding again recently but because I now know the law I jammed the door open and told him that I won't move until he let me on. I quoted the law below and he gave up and cleared the wheelchair space for me.

"S24 of the Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981 states

Bus drivers refusing to allow wheelchair users onto buses where the wheelchair space is either unoccupied or occupied by people who can readily and reasonably move are committing a crime. They can be prosecuted, given a £500 fine and 3 penalty points."

I think the fact that it’s difficult to find means it isnt common knowledge. Perhaps more work needs to be done to ensure everybody knows the laws around disability regardless as to whether they are disabled or not.
I recently spent a few days in London, and was amazed at how pushchair unfriendly the public transport system was - it’s obviously so much more challenging for wheelchair users! I saw many people with their pushchairs lugging them up and down steps - thats just not possible in a wheelchair.

So they're was one person in the wheelchair space using it appropriately and then you in the aisle hanging on to a handrail in your wheelchair? I mean champion, first class considerate person if he doesn't get involved in a rta. Potentially unemployed and up on manslaughter charges is he does

The space is for wheelchair users and not other disabilities. If a wheelchair user needed the space you were in with a double buggy, you would have had to get off the bus.

To be honest the people who are lugging pushchairs up and down steps in London have either (a) not planned out a step-free route in advance or (b) decided just to muddle through the steps by either bumping up and down or hoping a passer by will help? When DH and I took the buggy out we’d often go the step route because it was actually no big deal for us to carry it together up some steps.

Obviously wheelchairs don’t have the muddle through option in the same way but TFL is pretty good with step-free route planning. It’s not their fault that some of the stations are extremely old.

You can wade through it if you want to, or scroll up a bit and see the parts of this law confirming my OP.

You're still only quoting one part of the law and it's not the one that mentions wheelchair users.

Yes, of course. This was part of a discussion whereby some of us were discussing the fact that buggies/pushchairs/prams (predominantly pushed by women) should also have a protected space. Not detracting from a space which should obviously, and of course is, reserved in law, for a wheelchair.

From my OP the topic is being refused access to the bus. I'm not prepared to discuss this with you again as you are being argumentative.

We are disabled by our environment, steps, missing /blocked drop kerbs, inaccessible toilets, inaccessible taxis, buses and trains (even when accessible, the only space available for us is usually blocked one way or another) Pavements blocked by vehicles, A boards, etc and covid gave us new barriers, pavement restaurant furniture. Ever single day out we face issues that able people can take in their stride.

Looking at that law I am now quite aggrieved that a bus driver made me get off the bus for a wheelchair user when I had a tiny baby, in the middle of nowhere, with an hr for another bus. Seems it was wrong for them to make me get off actually as it was not possible for me to safely be there with my baby. Totally with you that space should be made though.

As a disabled person about to have a baby I have thoughts @Boomboom22

Yes it's awful being left waiting with a small baby. A total inconvenience But wheelchair users get this almost everytime they use a bus - basically they are told they are second hand citizens.

Yes it's unfair that there's not space for everyone but pregnant / new mothers are afforded a lot of courtesies that people don't allow disabled people.

People don't choose to be disabled, whereas having children a lot of times is a choice which comes with willing sacrifices.

Your experience should make you more empathetic towards chair users, not less.

As I said, the driver asked me if I was OK with it and I assured him that I was, in front of a bus full of witnesses and his bus camera. I take responsibility for my actions and would defend him in court if it came to that.

Why didn't your fold it down? I'd have rather woken baby up in that scenario that got off and felt my personal safety was at risk

Completely ridiculous blaming the driver.
What is he supposed to do if a person with a buggy refuses to move out the space or refuses to fold down the buggy? This happened recently on a bus i was on. A guy in a wheelchair was at the bus stop. The bus stopped for him and the driver got out the cab and asked the young woman with a pram if she would either fold down the pram or get off the bus to vacate the space. She refused both suggestions. The driver told her he would help her lift the pram into the hold space if she would fold it down. She refused. The driver told her the guy in the wheelchair couldn't get on the bus if she didn't vacate the space. She refused. The driver phoned the depot and asked advice when the next bus would come and he had to tell the wheelchair user when the next bus was and he apologised to the wheelchair user and said he couldn't make the girl with the pram vacate the space as she refused to do so. I was at the front of the bus and heard it all ..
So the bus drove away, leaving the poor guy in the wheelchair alone at the stop. In the cold. And there was absolutely nothing else the driver could do.
And the bus turned the corner and the girl with the pram pressed the bell to get off at the next stop. Dh said loudly 'I cant believe it' and i hope she heard him.

So, everyone here desperate to blame and condemn bus drivers, what are they meant to do? There's a sign inside the bus next to the wheelchair space saying "please vacate this space if needed for wheelchair users".

And if people refuse, what are drivers to do??????

You can't exclude wheelchair users from wheelchair spaces on the off chance that the buggy pusher currently using the space might be disabled. On any interpretation, if they are able to stand and push a buggy they're more able than the wheelchair user.

Surely that option already exists?

This driver could and should have refused to move till the pram mover vacated the space. I've seen that happen once or twice, and peer pressure from other passengers worked very well.

Do stop hinting. If there's something there that you say contradicts what OP says, just quote it.

@Quia I already did. When I pointed out to OP that section 24 of public vehicle passenger act didn't mention wheelchair users, only the ability to fine drivers she posted a long section of the law. So I asked OP where it comes from. Not to be argumentative but so people searching for that info for a formal complaint can make one that is legally correct. Part of what she posted was from an entirely different thing- The Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) (Amendment) Regulations 2002

There's no point highlighting this message if the law you are quoting doesn't say what you claim it does. Sure, a driver might fall for it because it sounds real but if you were to actually challenge a large transport provider, you'll need to quote correctly so they can't challenge it.

You aren't listening. She wouldn't move. Flat out refused. Short of man handling her there was nothing he could do.
Would you like to see a driver roughly shove a mother and pram off a bus?????

Im in Scotland.

Good for you! I do the same and it's the end of discussion. Some buggy mums are happy to make space , but often they won't. If holding the bus up is what it takes, then I'm up for it. I often see buggy mums being refused access because I'm there and I call out to the driver, telling him there's space. The mums usually give me a whispered thanks and a grateful look.