Bus driver refused me boarding in wheelchair

[MobilityCat]

I was refused boarding again recently but because I now know the law I jammed the door open and told him that I won't move until he let me on. I quoted the law below and he gave up and cleared the wheelchair space for me.

"S24 of the Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981 states

Bus drivers refusing to allow wheelchair users onto buses where the wheelchair space is either unoccupied or occupied by people who can readily and reasonably move are committing a crime. They can be prosecuted, given a £500 fine and 3 penalty points."

I am not for one moment saying that my needs as a wheelchair user trumps other passengers' needs (although the law does dictate that), but perhaps there would be more wheelchair passengers who felt able to use public transport if there wasn't such an issue. We don't have the option of folding our wheelchair, pushchairs do fold. I appreciate that this can be problematic in it's own right though, but again, pushchair users have the option to buy a more lightweight pushchair or maybe wear a sling - just trying to say they have more options than a wheelchair user who literally has one space allocated.

I agree that there should be spaces for both wheelchairs and pushchairs, but as things stand I don't agree that it is ok for a pushchair to go in to a wheelchair space, even if they are happy to move should the "rare occurrance" of a wheelchair passenger attempting to board. As stated earlier, bus drivers will often assume that the pushchair won't/can't move and simply not stop at all - I have had it happen to me more than once.

Most buggies have adaptions to be used from birth. Be they car status or basinettes attached on top, or inserts to support the baby.

Then you need to petition for a change in the law to have high barriers that close it off so no standing person can stand in it, no dog can lie in, no person can put their luggage, shopping trolley or shopping there because it isn't a sacred space, it's a space that legally must be vacated when needed, which is on the people using it and the driver. It shouldn't be on you or OP.

Pushchairs fold, but not all buggys do - I remember when I had to take my very poorly 4 week old to hospital by bus and I spent the entire bus journey praying that a wheelchair user wouldn't need the space. I would have got off the bus if they had, but buses were every 30 minutes and the doctor at the walk in clinic had basically told me I needed to get her to A&E as soon as possible and to ring 999 if there was any change, I didn't drive and I didn't have money for a taxi at that point. Obviously that's not the case for every buggy user but not everyone who uses that space is entitled, or selfish or thoughtless.

It is extremely difficult to navigate buses and trains with buggys now - people in general are more selfish, I couldn't imagine just handing someone my newborn in order to try and fold down the buggy that goes into two parts and find somewhere to store it now that the luggage rack has been taken up by newspapers, however having a buggy is obviously temporary, it doesn't last forever and doesn't compare to a wheelchair user so it's obvious where the priority lies.

I meant buggy not pram 😂 given that's what people usually say to just throw up into the waist high, tiny luggage space

With every respect, it would be fairly ridiculous for the space to be left empty on every journey unless occupied by a wheelchair user, and that would be near-impossible to enforce anyway when the bus is crowded. It makes much more sense to have a strict rule that anyone in the space vacates it as soon as someone in the wheelchair needs it.

The problem lies in bad training of bus drivers, and it is within the powers of bus companies to resolve it quite easily by policing it properly. If they routinely reported drivers for prosecution every time this sort of failure is reported to them, and if they ensured regular checks by plain clothes inspectors as well, drivers would soon learn.

And very often there are seats upstairs but those with working legs can’t be arsed to make the effort. They would rather stand and block the wheelchair space.

Exactly, and whenever I suggest drivers do their jobs, it's ooh no a driver can't possibly speak out against a parent with a buggy, that would be too hard, who'd protect the driver, imagine if he gets yelled at, those Mom's are such awful people.
Yes I can guarantee if there were a load of older teens smoking weed on the bus, they'd expect the driver to stop them, not leave them be for a 40 minute drive

I see wheelchair users have now been reduced to "they". I'm leaving the thread now, sorry OP for the derail!

To honest prams Vs chairs Vs drivers is basically an argument that suits the transport dept and bus companies. Why the actual flying flip have it written into law if there are no punitive measures? We need fines for companies who break the rules.

So you retrain/discipline the drivers, you don’t ban others from using the space.

What on earth are you talking about? There are only 2 uses of “they” in the whole chain and both refer to the bus companies.

Nope, THEY referred to all the people who say bus drivers can't talk to buggy Mom's. It's an odd assumption to think I'd mean wheelchair users as surely they are precisely the people saying drivers should do their job? You're massively overstretching to make me out to be a bitch.

@DohADear means this bit they'd expect the driver to stop them, not leave them be for a 40 minute drive where I'm talking about people who claim drivers are too fragile to tell a Mom to shift her buggy. No idea why anyone would assume that refers to wheelchair users

Well I thought you meant the bus companies, I see why you are saying but, in any event, I agree it is a ridiculous reach to interpret it as referring to wheelchair users- the kind of reach that would only be made by someone who was actively looking for reasons to feel hard done by.

Way to go OP. And thanks for sharing. Life is hard enough when you're not fully mobile to have to endure being refused entry to a bus.
To everyone slating the bus drivers. I know they are not on great wages. Around 11 pounds an hour in my town- and my grandma always said (and you can apply this to a lot of jobs tbh) 'you pay peanuts - you get monkeys'
They are under a huge amount of stress to follow all the rules and regs - and stay on time. It's a thankless job.
At least this particular driver knows he has to allow disabled passengers on board now.
Blame the bus companies. They need to do a better job of having the busses designed and paying decent wages and better training for the staff.

I'd suggest you write quoting the law OP cites and ask why they are allowing their drivers to risk prosecution. If they won't do anything, ultimately I suspect you could refer it to the transport licensing authorities. If the bus company is at risk of having its drivers prosecuted and losing its operating licence I suspect it would wake up quite quickly. People have also successfully sued bus companies for discrimination in similar circumstances.

Who's reducing wheelchair users to "they"? If you are referring to my post, that word obviously related back to the subject of the paragraph, i.e. bus companies.

Whilst I agree with your point. Section 24 of that act doesn't say what you're telling people it does.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/14/section/24

I'll explain my abbreviation of this law. S24 of the Public Passenger Vehicle Act 1981 states that everybody must comply with regulations under that Act under pain of being tried “on summary conviction” i.e. in magistrates’ court (thus a criminal record), “a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale” (£500) and, for bus drivers subject to the Act, “the conviction to be endorsed upon the licence“. On the Government’s list of endorsements, the only appropriate code seems to be M60 “Offences not covered by other codes (including offences relating to breach of requirements as to control of vehicle)” – 3 points lasting 4 years.
12.—(1) This regulation applies (subject to regulation 15(1) (duties requiring the proper functioning of equipment)) in relation to a driver and a conductor of a Schedule 1 vehicle.
(2) If there is an unoccupied wheelchair space on the vehicle, a driver and a conductor shall allow a wheelchair user to board if—
(a) the wheelchair is of a type or size that can be correctly and safely located in that wheelchair space, and
(b) in so doing, neither the maximum seating nor standing capacity of the vehicle would be exceeded.
(3) For the purpose of paragraph (2), a wheelchair space is occupied if—
(a) there is a wheelchair user in that space; or
(b) passengers or their effects are in that space and they or their effects cannot readily and reasonably vacate it by moving to another part of the vehicle.

(“A Schedule 1 vehicle” simply means a wheelchair accessible bus.)

So if you’re not allowed on a bus in your wheelchair, and the wheelchair space is either empty or there’s somebody in the space who can “readily and reasonbly” move to another bit of the bus, call the police and report the driver. You probably won't have to once you tell the driver they're breaking the law.

Where is the second part of what you've quoted from? Not trying to be goady but there's a good chance someone will find this thread when googling after being refused boarding. It would be helpful to have the relevant sections of law for someone to quote when making a formal complaint.

Which second part? It's all in the above, I detailed how it all fits together and trust me, it's more than enough. My first post was for simplicity, but you asked. It's a minefield to navigate and I seriously doubt it ever being challenged by a driver.

Good for you.

You're welcome, we're all in this together. Mine is also a large electric wheelchair and the space on some buses is very cramped.

I can't imagine why anyone would not vacate the wheelchair space if they weren't actually using a wheelchair.

I can't imagine how hard it is to use public transport in your situation.

When I used to get buses regularly a blind person with their guide dog often used to board later in my journey and I would always get up move to the back so they could get a closer seat. It staggers me that people with buggies don't fold them for a wheelchair user given that they can do so.