Love to know what mum's think of the Scottish Baby Box poem

[toomuchpink]

Love to know what mum's - especially those in Scotland - think of this poem. It is going into the Scottish Government's new baby box of freebies for parents of newborns.

Tempted to ask for alternative suggestions which truly capture the experience of having a baby. But perhaps for some people this is what it is like?

Jackie Kay
Welcome Wee One

O ma darlin wee one
At last you are here in the wurld
And wi’ aa your wisdom
Your een bricht as the stars,
You've filled this hoose with licht,
Yer trusty wee haun, your globe o' a heid,
My cherished yin, my hert's ain!

O my darlin wee one
The hale wurld welcomes ye:
The mune glowes; the hearth wairms.
Let your life hae luck, health, charm,
Ye are my bonny blessed bairn,
My small miraculous gift.
I never kent luve like this.

It is not intolerant because this is supposed to be a universal intervention. It, therefore, should be as inclusive as possible.

And also because there's something particularly worrying about using the notion of 'giving everyone the same start in life' to push a politicised language agenda that excludes and others people. It really is neither the time nor the place.

The boxes do not need to have a poem in them at all. So it isn't even a case that they actually needed to pick a language.

Because (to assuage your bafflement) - as you have already explained, the use of Scots is political. I would prefer that politics is kept out of a universal baby box which is designed to be inclusive (or should be).

And it is not just a single poem. If it were one lone poem in isolation from a bigger agenda that would be one thing, but it really isn't.

I think the problem is that you are confusing intolerance of particular political policies with intolerance of actual people.

No one has said that the 1.6 million Scots speakers should stop speaking Scots. Or that they are not being properly Scottish. No one on here is intolerant of the actual people who fit the SNP-approved model of Scottishness.

What we don't want to tolerate is a political agenda to make this the only true way to be Scottish.

It is a very big problem when cries of bigotry and intolerance are used to stifle and prevent actual political debate.

Yes milady I agree. It's almost like wanting to put a Scottish Ambassador to the USA in Washington (at a cost of millions) when there is already a perfectly good British one already there.

umm, I said that any use of any language is 'political', and I meant in the sense that it asserts the validity of that language. I invited you to consider the overwhelming use of English in state output, all of which is political in exactly the same sense. You declined to consider that.

However, taking the use of one language or another as offensive is just plain strange, and considering the poetry in Scots which is already embraced as at the heart of national life, your argument about unversalism and understanding just doesn't hold any water. I would personally have loved a poem in Gaelic to welcome my child, but do I take offence at one in Scots? Do I start a massive thread whining about it? No, I don't, because I value all aspects of our culture, and all cultures for that matter.

Exactly - the use of Scots is political. In terms of the output of state output, I refer you back to my previous post which was "Irrelevant - we're discussing their decision to include a poem in Scots in the baby box". English is not political in the same way in that it is the inclusive language of Scotland spoken by the majority.

So can we now add whining to bigoted and intolerance in the context of any debate on the SG's political agenda?

No, we can assign the descriptors 'whining', 'bigoted' and 'intolerant' to this type of negative and politicised response to anyone having the temerity to use a language other than English in the public sphere. You're welcome.

Given that the vast majority of people in Scotland can speak and read English, then the continued use of English in any official communication seems purely pragmatic, tbh. If you want people to understand you you pick the language you know people can read and understand. Doesn't matter what the history is.

The repositioning Scots as one coherent language and indeed The Language of Scotland rather that a set of local spoken dialects (and often just different pronunciations) of English may well sit within a long history of whatever, but it's 2017. Constantly bringing up history (and not recent history either) is to ignore the reality of Scotland in the 21st century.

And this particular poem chooses to spell words shared with English stupidly. This makes the poem harder to read, whether you actually speak Scots or not. And it's only purpose can be to pretend that they're not exactly the same words.

As I said then - any challenge to the SG's political agenda (which includes the use of Scots when they could be inclusive by using english) is seen as whining, bigoted and intolerant by some. Such a shame - but no great surprise.

I don't know anyone who speaks like that and I'm from Scotland.

To be honest, I'm not 100% sure what that person is saying.

Sounds like a rip off of rabbie burns and even then, I don't know what he means half the time either.

The poem is shit.

I can only refer you back to my previous invitation: consider the political nature of any use of any language. Compare the output and space given to our various languages. Consider the reasons for your negative emotional reaction to an essential part of Scottish culture, and consider the implications of denying a space and role for Scots.

In truth, I'm not posting to persuade you, though thanks for engaging with me. I'm just trying to add some balance to this thread, which after all could be hanging about for years and many may read, maybe some who haven't considered these points before.

Thanks for your time, and oidche mhath :)

Milady and Chenjin spot on as usual.

Completely agree that this poem is inconsistent as well as being poorly written - the poet chooses to use "cherished" and "miraculous" but writes "luve" and "mune" and "wurld" in their interpretation of what "Scots" may or may not be. If (and it's a massive if) this box is about levelling the playing field, giving all babies the same start in life then the poem is failing. A mother from other parts of Europe, other parts of the UK or from outside Europe is going to read that poem with a wtf expression on her face. Same expression I got from my daughter's friend's mum who was from India when her child was trying to learn some dreadful poem for Burns night (which wasn't even Burns). It's not inclusive at all - it's EXCLUDING anyone not born and brought up in Scotland, or anyone who doesn't have a really high level of English.

If they'd really wanted to be inclusive, and create some sort of poem/verse about being a parent, they could have had it translated into the 10 most spoken languages in Scotland. Just as many leaflets are. That would have got the message across.

But no. It has to be in Scots. And if you object to it, think it's politically motivated and question terms like "Makar", you're a bigot. Welcome to Scotland in 2017.

Consider the reasons for your negative emotional reaction to an essential part of Scottish culture, and consider the implications of denying a space and role for Scots.

Because it is a tool of a deeply problematic agenda. That's why I feel so strongly about it.

And because any objection to this political project is painted as bigotry and intolerance. Of course doing so serves that same political project.

Spelling world with a u is not an essential part of Scottish culture. It's part of an agenda to pretend that Scots is more different from English than it is, because admitting that lots of elements of Scottish culture are also shared with the English would just be unthinkable.

I would equally embrace a welcoming poem in Urdu and Gaelic.

Just give me English.

And yes as Luna says, because it's not Scots in addition to; it's Scots in place of.

I'm from the central belt and I find the reduction of Scottishness in this way problematic (and utterly out of touch with my friends and family). I dread to think how it must seem to someone from the highlands or islands.

At least if it were in Urdu or Gaelic all the words would be spelled right. So you could look them up in the right kind of dictionary.

You'd struggle to work out what 'luve' was unless your English was good enough to figure it out by context. In fact, I bet we all had to work out that it must be a stupid spelling of luve by context because you certainly wouldn't automatically pronounce it as love (more loov or luve).

Not a "negative emotional reaction" (add that to whining, bigoted and intolerant - my goodness, that list is growing...) but a questioning of the political agenda behind a poem which is not representative of Scotland in 2017 where the main language spoken, written and understood is english.

Good night to you too

Luna - completely agree. How great would it have been if they'd included poems about birth from around the world, using the most widely spoken languages in Scotland in 2017, with english translations?

Doubt it will go down too well in Lewis, or Skye, or Barra. Being told that their national language is Scots.

Bloody hell. This poem has broken my autocorrect. I've written luve so many times now it thinks it's an actual word.

You wouldn't automatically recognise it as love. Obviously.

How great would it have been if they'd included poems about birth from around the world, using the most widely spoken languages in Scotland in 2017, with english translations?

Yes. That would be lovely and inclusive.

That would be celebrating the diversity of Scotland in 2017.

"How great would it have been if they'd included poems about birth from around the world, using the most widely spoken languages in Scotland in 2017, with english translations?"

It might have been nice but can you imagine the thread here. More waste of money! Why wasn't at big book of poems in just English? Why was the cut off point above X language? I live in Gretna, why do I need a poem in Doric (would Doric even make it? Orcadian perhaps?).

My written word follows standard English (dyslexia notwithstanding). However, my spoken word can contain many of the words in the poem. And poetry is an oral tradition and many of the words in this poem are heard every day in my community. I just dont see what the problem is.

Well they could have not had a poem at all (my preferred option). But if there must be poetry then it should actually attempt to represent the diverse reality of Scotland in 2017.

The poem is written not oral.

No Scottish- that how you'd like to have imagined the thread here. The reality is it would have been held up as an example of how inclusive we can be and how diverse Scotland is in 2017, had they really wanted to include written poetry which resonated with all new mums.

Oh - and they could have decided based on the top 5/10 languages (as opposed to dialects such as Doric) spoken in Scotland according to the latest census.