Hungerford massacre

[Snooks1971]

This BBC documentary came up on my YT feed tonight, I hadn’t seen it before.

Doc is from 2005 and based on what happened at Hungerford, a mass English shooting in 1987.

Watching the BBC documentary tonight and bearing in mind I’m now 54 and was 16 when it happened, I wonder if the (I struggle to find the right word here for him: perpetrator, shooter, both too glamorous) murderer would be considered an incel these days.

I hare this labelling culture btw, but he sticks out as an early example of a angry young (ish) man still living with his mum. I know he just didn’t just kill women thiugh, but he seemed angry at life.

Im prepared to be picked apart but this isn’t AIBU.

I've also previously questioned this!

Omg really?

@Eifla2o18 thank you. I feel like I’m seeing it with new (old) eyes

Yes. I work in criminal justice and was pondering it with someone a few weeks ago. I don't think I know enough about him though. I was at primary school then.... I'm not sure if we have enough info about him. Though I think the internet really nurtures (?) incels and their ideology. And it obviously wasn't about then. Not sure if he would indulge his beliefs in other ways?

Agree there isn’t much known about him, and living at home with your mum wasn’t uncommon then, there was even a comedy series about it (Sorry! starring Ronnie Corbett) although this ridiculed the son in the situation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorry!_(TV_series)

That was a good documentary.
Incel seems a bit too limited for what was going on with Ryan.

I suppose nowadays we all leave an online trail, search histories etc which build up a picture of what's going on inside the minds of these people. Nothing like that back then, unless he'd left notes or plans.

You've said exactly what was in my head. So much more succinctly!

I don't know if I'd use the word incel, though I know it has a broader meaning than it originally did. But I agree that he fits that mold of angry young-is man who is unsuccessful at life in general, including sexually and socially, and takes that out with violence. I do also recall the first attack was thought to be sexually motivated, and was different to the spree shooting of the other murders.

Just come across this thread… it happens that my DH knew Ryan as a kid as well as anyone did. They were a year apart at primary school, but Ryan lived next door to DH’a nan, so they used to play together (sort of) on the common.

I say “sort of”, as DH said Ryan was a bit of a loaner, who was always much more interested in playing soldier games than the rest of them. Apparently he once turned up at DH’s birthday party wearing soldier uniform… and it wasn’t fancy dress.

He was always into guns, but that really wasn’t unusual for a young man living in a small rural town back then. I had a boyfriend not many years later who used to give me his spent cartridges as love tokens, and I remember my dad shooting cans with his airgun in the garden.

DH’s nan regularly berated Ryan for making a racket with his guns in the garden, and did exactly that on the day of the shootings. He just looked at her and walked away. Later transpired he’d most likely just killed his mum.

Anyway, in short, the signs were limited. He wasn’t sociable, and certainly had his specific interests, but in the contexts of the place and time, didn’t show any signs of what was to come. Living at home in your mid 20s wasn’t uncommon either. It seems to be thought that young people unable to afford to move out is a modern phenomenon, but my DH lived at home until 26, despite working full time.

Who knows if Ryan would have fitted the incel mould if he had lived in the online age. He certainly wasn’t radicalised by any outside sources. Unfortunately he had the means and access to weapons that could do great harm beyond the initial awful murder in the woods (which obviously in itself was horrific - I was thinking about it last night while watching the Rachel Nickell drama).