What was the mushroom murderer’s endgame?

[vincettenoir]

I don’t find it hard to believe EP wanted her ex dead and at a stretch I can see she might have wanted to kill her in-laws. But Ian and Heather? Why?

And my impression is that she was not expecting the police to be onto the mushrooms. Certainly not initially and perhaps not at any point. But how was she expecting to kill 5 people from food poisoning (her ex was originally supposed to be there) and survive herself without a huge investigation that would lead to the outcome it has?

Does this lend to the theory that she is innocent? Or was she not expecting to kill the victims? It’s difficult to make sense of.

Isn’t it fairly clear? She had tried to poison her husband previously
she planned it and then tried to get rid of the evidence

I think the others were probably just collateral

Yes but how did she not realise it would come back to her?

Arrogance

I find that difficult to buy. Or understand. If she had just murdered Simon she would have had more chance of getting away with it. But to think she could kill three/ four people and not get caught? And while not even getting Simon, presumably her main target. It’s unfathomable.

I suspect some people don’t think things through. Like taking a dehydrator down to local recycling centre where there are cameras. That it would be taken at face value that she bought mushrooms from an unnamed seller and it’s their fault.

Maybe she didn’t think they’d all die, just feel on deaths door. Maybe if the ex had turned up she’d of eaten some too like a murder suicide scheme.

If I was going to poison people I think the best cover up would be getting sick yourself and slso a variety of food that could cause food poisoning. I’ve had terrible food poisoning from seafood and also salad. I wouldn’t of used my own dehydrator. Also I’d of gone and bought foraged dried mushrooms from a local store, for a bit of plausible ginger pointing.

You're looking at it from a position of an ordered logical mindset.

It's entirely likely that she operates under disordered thinking without any major plan, simply an urge to remove and destroy other people. She could have felt an immense sense of control and 'playing god' sitting there watching them eating something she knew would likely kill them. It could be a simple as that.

From what I have read the victims were all very churchy in a very churchy town and I think they lectured and were being superior to her, or at the least she felt they were being so.

Yeah, I think this is the best explanation. But doing this knowing she would pay such a high price of it (even for your kids to lose dgp and just be under suspicion for their murders) is absolutely baffling.

Again, it's possible she views her children as possessions rather than sentient human beings with thoughts and feelings in their own right. So their loss of a grandparent/s wouldn't have been a concern to her.

In terms of the suspicion that fell upon her, it may have been she actually on some level enjoyed the attention afters years of being invisible.

Take a look at the 'Giggling Granny' as a comparison case. Often there are patterns to this sort of behaviour.

I've been listening to a podcast on this, not got to the trial bit yet but it's really interesting.

It said that there was pictures on her phone or tablet showing scales with dried mushrooms portioned out for each of the beef wellingtons. I'm wondering if this was a "trial run" where she was trying to work out what dose would just make you a bit ill and what would be more severe. With the aim of eventually poisoning her ex successfully.

Still no idea how she thought she'd get away with it though!

Mmmm, yeah that rings true.

Murderers often think they’re more intelligent than the average - they do things like take the dehydrator to the dump, thinking that way nobody will ever know, because they massively overestimate their own cunning and underestimate everybody else.

Yes but generally speaking unintelligent people overestimate their intelligence (Dunning-Kruger effect). But wasn’t she actually supposed to be quite intelligent? She was an Air Traffic Controller or something. She’s not your common or garden murderer. I just find so much of this confusing.

Well honestly would you expect the dump to have CCTV, and for the police to go through footage from weeks before the actual crime, find the dehydrator and find your fingerprints/DNA and mushroom traces on it? I have to say I probably wouldn’t. Luckily I don’t plan to murder anybody!

I think she thought she’d blame it on a terrible accident/delinquent foreigners, and everyone would rally round and support her in her moment of tragedy. Narcissists do tend to be surprised when you don’t believe their obvious lies! It must have been a massive shock to her when everyone immediately suspected she had murdered them.

I don't understand why she still served the in-laws and friends the meal, when she knew her husband wasn't there to eat it, unless she wanted to kill them too.

Well it's another way of hurting him I guess? Perhaps she also had too much emotional investment in the whole thing to back off and cancel it , even without the main intended victim.

She had, allegedly, tried to poison Simon already a couple of times, including him being in a coma and suffering some pretty awful internal damage. She got away with it, so that probably fuelled her arrogant thinking.

She did not expect 1. Death cap mushroom poisoning to be identified so quickly. The doctors were really on the ball with it, and she did not anticipate that. Had the poisoning run its course, the toxins would not have been detectable and therefore would not have been traced back to her. Suspicious maybe, but no evidence that she did it, especially with the extra time to dispose of everything she thought she'd have. 2. She did not think Ian would survive. Without his evidence of the different coloured plates and the false cancer story, it's a much shakier case.

I didn’t know that, I listened to daily podcasts but don’t recall hearing anything about a previous poisoning attempt. Do you have any details?

She is a psychopath, pure and simple. No explanations or rationale will work with people like that. IMO.

It was suppressed during the actual trial in case it was prejudicial to the jury, but there’s lots of info released about it now.

I am a criminal defence lawyer (barrister but work more in a solicitor type role now). I have met hundreds of defendants over the years. Not one of them ever thought they would be caught. No matter how poorly planned the offence. It’s illogical but the reality is they all think they will get away with it. Even people who on paper appear intelligent and sensible.

This is really interesting, thanks for the insight.

Can I ask, how did they react to actually being caught given they never thought it would happen?

Mixed - some take it on the chin, accept the evidence and plead guilty. Some maintain innocence sometimes in face of overwhelming evidence as is their right and of course many defendants have been wrongly accused so correctly state their innocence. In my experience (which I know isn’t a scientific sample) of hundreds of clients over 20 plus years normal people in unusual circumstances will demonstrate the most bizarre and extreme behaviours. Most of us don’t find ourselves in peculiar circumstances or the grip of mental illness but we are all capable of doing outrageous things if we are put under enormous pressure even if that’s of our own making.

She was originally charged with previously poisoning him/attempted murder but charges withdrawn before the trial so nothing could be mentioned.