Do anyone else’s parents always need to make the final decision?

[Ooih]

I have an odd situation, trivial in someways but it really grates.

My parents have always needed to decide what we do. As a child I rarely got to choose anything, which is different to how I parent. As a young adult, they also chose how every meet up went, I didn't care.

Now I have kids, I do care. They like doing things that don't work well for my kids and so I can't blindly follow. Everything I suggest has to be heavily modified so that they make the final decision.

This week, they suggested going to a venue that won't work for my son. I explained why it wouldn't work, found something that would work. It's high energy to do the counter argument to them because they require me to give a good reason and so I had to explain (it's around nap time, busy etc), the other venue would be more enjoyable. This was via text message, they came straight back with another suggestion of a venue, no reason why they didn't like my proposal. In the same text, they said they are busy now and can't discuss further. In effect shutting down the conversation with their proposal. I think they just feel the need to chose everything. I don't really have the energy to keep arguing on something so trivial. I'd rather go with my pick but I'll probably concede. The reason it also grates is the venue is in my area, they live 3 hours away, so don't really know these places. There is no particular reason for them to have a preference rather than control. I have a preference because the venue makes a difference to my kids, which will impact all of us. This happens all the time.

Another example, I suggested going to a farm whilst we were on holiday with them. I was told not everyone likes farms and that we should pick activities that suits everyone. We did adult activities all week with a 1 and 3 year old. It was hard work!!

I have hardly made any decisions about activities we do as a family in 40 years, it seems so weird and it's quite exhausting.

It's also really trivial, so everything I let it slide. Everything I object, it's so tiring and I never really get to choose.

What's wrong with them? I'm worried this will get worse as they get older. Anyone seen my future?

I don't have too much purpose with this thread but does anyone else get this?

Can I suggest you give them a choice of two or more things that work for you and then they can choose from those. It might fulfill this need in them to make a decision that could be a control thing for them.

It is a strategy used for children with specific profiles of autism because they literally cannot cope with others making choices for them and it might help with controlling adults too.

@DuskOPorter makes a really good suggestion there, I also sometimes offer to meet my controlling sister by saying “I can do X or Y, on A or B date, which do you prefer?”

She will inevitably reply with “let’s do Z” - sometimes Z is actually something I could do (and would if a friend suggested it) but I’m trying to train her not to debate stuff with me so I’ll refuse and respond again with “No, we can do X or Y, let me know if you want to do one of those”. If I give in and say “sure let’s do Z” then she’ll start up with wanting C date instead, and actually let’s not do Z, let’s do W and then Q” and blah blah. So I just don’t give an inch on anything now.

I agree with giving them choices like above. Or when they suggest a restaurant that won't work just say no, it won't work. Don't offer an alternative. Let them keep going until they choose one you are happy with.

I still think that you need to be firmer from the start and do something along the lines @DuskOPorter and @MeAndLicorice suggested.
It’s like training a toddler - it’s hard at the beginning but you have to continue and stick to your guns.
You know your parents so I would always have a back up plan to mitigate the consequences e.g DH takes kids outside for a ball game while they are arguing with you, you sit and smile ( it’s the most difficult I know!!!) then at 5 pm you say : Oh it’s tea time. Mum and Dad we are having pizza. Would you join us?
Have some frozen pizzas in stock to accommodate them.
In your example I would say no to them driving to you and if they are not happy with places suggested by you just say - it won’t work for you as you are planing to go to X/Y. And then take kids to one of that places on the day so you are not at home (and to show that you followed your plans)

I know it’s hard, and it shouldn’t be so ridiculously hard just to plan a few hours with your own parents , you are practically wasting your time there. But the thing is you need to break the pattern asap otherwise you will have more problems when they are older.
The only thing I would be fair and realistic and consider parents needs as well while choosing places but real needs not imaginary.

• let's go out for a meal afterwards. And let's go to this specific place (a), to make it easier for you me: this place (b) won't work for son, this place will*
• how about this place (c) instead We can't talk about this anymore today

I've said multiple times in the past that going out for a meal isn't my preference but it's led to ridiculously long discussions.

It takes two sides to have a ridiculously long discussion. Just drop the rope.
They cannot physically force you to do anything, so you just have to learn to stop answering, stop the discussion in its tracks.

When they say 'We can't talk anymore about this today', you say ' OK, see you X day, bye'
Then the day comes. You go to the first activity, then comes meal time. You say 'we are going to place (a), see you there if you want to join us'. They will start to argue. You say 'it was a Iovely day out, see you next time' and you get in your car and drive off. Then wait to see if they come to the restaurant.
Or you say 'lets not bother with the meal out. See you at home for lunch/tea/dinner' and you get in your car and drive off. Then wait to see if they come back to your house.
Get used to not arguing back, just stop answering, and drive off.

Of course this only works if you have your own car.

If at home, it is even easier. You say 'no, we are not going to b/c. If you don't fancy (a) I have plenty of food in. Would you like pasta or rice?'

Bluntly, as long as you’re the only one concerned with ‘keeping the peace’, and thinking this means meekly submitting to things that don’t suit you, this will keep happening. Your parents aren’t concerned with ‘keeping the peace’.

I have a friend like this who makes me go through the little dance every time and can only imagine how tiring it is with parents. The only thing that I have found that works with my friend is saying that me and DC will do it anyway - and then suddenly she and DC are also ok to do it!

But with parents more generally I have had some frustrating exchanges where they misunderstand situations of me checking that something is ok was a courtesy, with me asking them to approve the whole plan and make alternative suggestions. My partner has helpfully described this as them "not understanding the purpose of the communication" and categorising it this way makes me feel less annoyed - it might help you OP?

I've had to deal with some situations like this and the way I tend to deal with it is by largely disengaging from parenting my children beyond the parenting basics. So I will keep my children out of danger and prevent them being a nuisance to other people around us wherever we may be, but I don't particularly insist on good behaviour beyond that - I ignore fussiness over food, sitting under the table, "this is boring" comments and all sorts of behaviour I'd normally pull the kids up on. Instead, I 'externalise' their "bad" behaviour (which is really just normal children's behaviour when expected to do boring non-child friendly activities for a stupidly long period of time) so that it's not just me who has to deal with it and manage their behaviour.

I did get lots of comments at first about how badly-behaved the kids are, how other people's children are better behaved and how their friend's toddler grandchild can sit through a two hour opera without fidgeting because they've been taking her since birth (🙄) and nonsense like that. I just smile and say "yes, our kids can be a bit of a handful, if you've got any tips do let DH know".

But it's worked because everyone now realises that if we don't do sensible activities where the kids can let off steam, we'll all have a thoroughly miserable time (and not just me!).

They think I'm a terrible, lax parent but I've found I can live with that 😂.

Control freaks who are incapable of being able to acknowledge you as a legitimate individual or do any give & take that is necessary for any healthy relationship. I have this in my family & it’s very difficult. In my case asserting one’s needs & rights result in passive aggressive & unreasonable behaviour, complete withdrawal & other manipulations. They unfortunately I think are so used to never compromising or negotiating that any attempts by you to request this, will be met with unreasonable behaviour which they use to get what they want. The are in effect, covert bullies.
Great advice to already have the outing planned & invite them to join for a boundaried portion of it. If they try to sabotage it - likely - either when there or leading up to it - stay firm & don't cowtow. The likelihood is that they are incapable of reciprocity in this way & so you may end up with them withdrawing altogether - which is unreasonable as you & your DC will want to see them. I’d also invite them to your house to see DC & don’t attend actual activities if they are so insistent on controlling it.

You're choosing to allow them the control. Don't go on holiday with them, and if you do, you say, "We are going to the farm tomorrow, would you like to come?" If they say, "Not everyone likes farms," you just say, "OK, have a great day."

If they ask you to come to an unsuitable venue, "That doesn't work for DC, but have a lovely time."

They are relying on you avoiding conflict.

No you don’t.

”We’ve booked x activity, we’re going at 12.”

”oh, we don’t want to go there”

”That’s a shame, the kids love it and would love for you to join, we’re leaving at 11.30 if you change your mind”

Conversation closed.

OP, my parents (well, my mother) are like this too. If it helps at all, mine are like this with everyone (I bet yours are too) and were - as far as I can tell - pretty much like this at work as well (they were in leadership positions and mum is actually pretty 'good with people' so she probably managed to persaude people they had more input than they actually did...). It's not personal, it's not a judgement on your ability to adult, it's their own personality and total inability to accept input/cede control.

If you do push back, be prepared to become 'difficult', 'controlling', 'bossy', 'argumentative'.

Sometimes a bit of humour gets through (you will probably not feel very humorous but it sometimes bypasses they 'she is arguing with us' bit). So if they come back with six million other suggestions, 'I don't think we need a UN negotiated treaty agreement here, x works best for us this time, you can pick next time.' And then just ignore anything else they say.

You can also make your reasons for not wanting somewhere in the first place a reason for leaving early. They might at least get the message that you know what will and won't work for your kids. So you're at an activity - the very first sign of your kids acting up/not enjoying it's 'I know you thought this would work for the kids and I wanted to give it a try but looks like my initial hunch it wouldn't work was right - we'll head off now before it gets worse'.

This.

Add in
"DH and I have plans so we'll be heading home afterwards to give the kids dinner before the sitter arrives"
"No, we are bringing pack lunches which we'll eat on arrival before doing X activity but feel free to lunch in the cafe and you can meet us later"

I've said multiple times in the past that going out for a meal isn't my preference but it's led to ridiculously long discussions.
This is ridiculous. Stop using preference, try using No. "I appreciate you enjoy eating out and that's what you would like to do when you see us but it is not relaxing for us with two small children. That may change as they grow up but this weekend we have decided to take them to do X. No pressure to join us at all, just thought we'd mention it in case you fancied it. "

Yeah, this. No need to compromise. Tell them it wouldn't work for you because of whatever, but have a good time, and you'll come along next time.

They'll soon learn what you will and won't do, and it should make them more aware of things.

Are your DCs the first/only grandchildren?

Leaving aside the whole "control" thing, for some people it does take a while for it to sink in that having grandchildren on the scene does change fundamentally what you can do as a family (or what works best for your DCs. ie. works best for you).

My parents took a while to work this out....everything stayed very adult-centred at first, until they realised that the demographic had changed, and they needed to acknowledge it, and move with it. Some grandparents fill their houses with toys on day one, cannot wait to get stuck into active grandparenting, and welcome the new generation with open arms....and some just carry on oblivious, as if nothing had changed, and hope grandchildren will just slot into their old lives.

I think you are learning that your expressing of preferences just leads to them ignoring you.

You can switch your the dynamic by taking controls first.

Pick a day and say “would you like to come with us to X farm and then I’ll make us all dinner at home”.
They can then say yes or no. You don’t have to compromise on what the invitation is.

Same as if they invite you - THEY get to specify the details and you get to choose to accept or decline.

It may well be that you see less of them for a while while the new dynamic adjust. But again that’s ok!! You are an adult you can do your own thing

When they shut the conversation down and say they can’t talk about it now, say ‘fine-we will postpone getting together until we can find something we all want to do. Let me know when you are next free’

My DP are a bit like this
I used to do whatever I could to accommodate them but now with DC I haven’t got the energy
I just say that won’t work for us, we can do x or we can do y or we’ll arrange another time soon and that’s the end of the conversation for me.
I try to be reasonable ofc I’m not suggesting 4 hours in the soft play to them when they would hate that, but I realised I was the one doing all the compromising (well along with dc who were being forced to sit in a high chair for a 2 hour lunch) whilst they were very happy to set their boundaries of what they were and weren’t willing to do. I figured if they are comfortable having boundaries then I can too
as a result we don’t see them much

Honestly, that all sounds so exhausting and it just sucks the enjoyment out of anything that you do. Can you take some time away from them? It's all about them and what they want and what they think you should want but don't.

What are they like with your children? Do they get impatient with them?

Thing is though, if you continue to do the same thing, you are going to continue to get the same outcome.

If this were my parents, I would conclude that getting to do what they want seems to be more important than seeing their grandchildren (because I just wouldn’t take them somewhere that doesn’t work for everyone). And I’d say that to them: do you want to see the kids or do you want to go to abc restaurant? If the former it has yo be somewhere that will tolerate a 1yo and 3yo. If the latter, I’ll see you alone.

At least then everyone will know where they stand.

To be honest, and I mean this genuinely and not unkindly. You ask what’s wrong with them but I think that’s the wrong question. What’s wrong with you? Don’t let them do this. There’s something in you allowing this to happen where others wouldn’t.

This is very true. I'm called difficult and treated dismissively when I push back. It sounds feeble to put it in writing but there's something about wanting to be cared about/ liked/ loved by them the kept me in line. Now, it's partly habit and partly that I don't like high drama relationships. I should reflect on the habit that I've adopted, and reassess

@Ooih Next time they call you difficult, just say "I'm not being difficult, you are. And you appear to have forgotten that I'm an adult not a child, and I don't have to do what you tell me to do any more".