Lifting Support Thread 3

[Proteinpud]

Continuing from @Work2live 's original thread, with the following intro post

"Thought I’d start this thread as a few people thought it’d be a good idea.

"It might be a nice place to support each other and talk about lifting in general, ask for tips and advice on workouts, how to get enough protein etc.

"All levels very much welcome, from complete newbies to those who’ve been weightlifting for years! 💪🏼"

@everycowandagain argh! Yes I get what was happening! Have you tried rack pulls? Adding a bit of height may just give you the keeping tension feeling from a less “new” position? Sumo is something I’ve only just started but I can only create tension at the start of taking the slack out the bar, I need that resistance.

I suspect rack pulls might be in my future @2andadog!

I am testing maxes in a couple of weeks so we have agreed that, so long as it's not unsafe, he will let me lift for the next couple of weeks without giving me lots of cues. Sumo is very technical and I do overthink my deadlift. It's easy to take the lift apart and hard to put back together.

I have my secondary squat and deadlift day later this week so I will have a chance to get some slightly lighter volume in and get back in the zone.

Sounds positive! Hopefully it'll all click and become instinctive in no time.

I'm back on programme now after a couple of weeks change for competition taper/de load (although I still trained 3 times in de load, just did some olympic lifting for a change!) Day 1 week 1 was a killer last night, evil leg day haha!

I am testing my squat 1 rep max at the weekend and I am terrified!

I squatted 2.5kg more than my old max last weekend but as soon as I had more weight on the bar than I had done before I freaked out, tensed up and made it so much harder than it should have been.

I need tips on how to be brave!!!

Oooh @everycowandagain good luck! You did go up last weekend! No useful advice I'm afraid but can I ask a question - how do you warm up for a one rep max test?

I'm seeing progress in pull ups at last. Working on wider grip (which I find much harder but know I need to do built lat strength - think I'd plateau'd at shoulder width) and adding bit of weight (up to 5kg) and only 3/4 reps per set. Really enjoying it.

@everycowandagain do you have a ritual in how you set up including your brain? I always set up for squats exactly the same way and that includes all sorts of telling myself I'm strong and awesome, fixing the right focal point, confident walk out, moment of brace etc. It takes a while and part of it is to get my brain ready for what's coming. Also having lots of experience of pushing through that sticking point. It's very rare I actually fail a squat which I suppose helps that confidence too.

@MsMartini I did add a bit last weekend yes! Now I am tapering (which is much needed because my body feels very tired!!) ready for testing.

I have been doing heavy singles in training recently so testing will go the same ie 10 reps with the empty bar, add some weight, 5 reps, add more, 3 reps, add more and then drop to 2 then 1 and keep adding weight each set. And then keep adding and doing 1! Repeat until failure!!Good rest period between each one too of course.

@RayKray I do have a ritual type set up, I just need to stay in the zone and stick with it even when I know it will be heavy. I am not afraid to grind it out if need be, if I can set up and start the rep well then I have a decent chance of getting to the grindy slow bit and then hitting some new numbers. I just need to hold it together at the start so I can get to that bit.

Interesting, @everycowandagain , so you have done a fair few reps at more than warm up before you get to the max for 1?

@MsMartini last week when I squatted I did the empty bar and then 7 sets in total. It could have been 8 if the last one had moved better. 4 of the sets were only one rep though. Sometimes I then do backdown sets where, after my top set, I will take 10-14% of the weight off and do 2-4 sets of maybe 2 or 3.

This does all explain why my squat day takes SO long!!

To me it’s incomprehensible that it being very rare that you fail a squat adds to your confidence. Does this not make you frightened to attempt a new 1RM if you believe that you might not get the lift?

Learning to fail lifts, especially squat, was the toughest part of my development as an athlete and took a while to push through. My coach would program me sets to failure (so for squat a weight somewhere around 4-5 rep max, three sets to failure; usually for bench sets to failure the weight is in a lighter rep range and many reps are done before failing). For a long time more often than not I would just not try the last rep rather than fail it.

Once I had confidence in failing the squat I could train harder. I also believe that the training effect of failing a grind is significant. Some seconds spent working at that level of effort with the bar not moving is an unmatchable training stimulus.

I guess it follows from this that my tip for @everycowandagain is to get confidence in failing the squat then if you add 2.5kg and don’t get it you can think to your self “what a good training stimulus”. I have a team mate who always says to resign yourself to the fact that at some point the weights gonna feel heavy. It’s just gonna feel heavy, it’s a heavy weight, and that’s okay, you can handle it, you know how. I also find this tip invaluable.

I guess it depends on an individual's mindset and what works for them.

No I'm never scared of a new 1RM cos I always believe I'll get it as that's what the evidence tells me. I might think 'wow this is gonna be heavy, it's amazing I can lift this, I'm gonna have to put absolutely everything I can into this to get it up' but I'm certain I'll get it.

That's not to say I don't look at the loaded bar and think this is gonna be tough and heavy, and yes it feels tough and heavy, and yes I have to grind, but when I'm getting my head set I don't ever think I won't get it.

Before my last comp I failed my last bench in training which was a new 1RM. I was very annoyed for days. But on the day I was entirely convinced I'd get it as I knew I could trust the process and the taper. And my coach's judgement.

My coach decides all my numbers and I have total faith that he's right and if he thinks I'll get it, then I will. He's never programmed training for failure on the 3 lifts, it's always reps in reserve, which does still include grinding. TBH I don't know of people that train RPE 11. I see a lot of people's training videos and it's all RPE 7/8/9 etc. A fail would be an overshoot on their programme.

I know my coach thinks a lot about psychology and things being specific to the lifter in front of him. So I imagine my coach has identified that's a good mindset for me to perform best. And that won't be the case for everyone of course.

His approach is also to go 9 for 9 rather than take risks in comp (unless there's a reason for it) whereas I see other coaches take bigger risks. There's different schools of thought on that too.

@erinaceus and @RayKray how interesting, thank you both.

@everycowandagain thanks. Very interesting. I often do a pyramid with cali - either volume (reps) or intensity (eg pull up grip width or adding small weight) especially if I won't be doing too much else heavy, but not with weights (but after bench would do other chest exercises for eg).

Good luck @everycowandagain

I'm working very slowly on squats (knee injury) but got some good sets at the wimpy weight of 50k the other day- supersetted with climbing up the rope (I am sooooooo thrilled I can climb a rope!)

Does anyone else find that it's only when the weight gets medium-heavy that they actually "feel" their strength? I do a warm up set of just the bar for back squats, and about 40k for deadlifts, but I don't really get everything engaged till I hit about 70% of my 1RM.

My PT says "Feel your hamstrings" for a DL, but I don't feel them till I hit a good weight. Am I weird ? (I am very flexible so I don't feel my hamstrings unless I'm putting my head through my knees).

@YellowAsteroid yayyyy to rope climbs - amazing!

Funnily enough I was thinking just the same yesterday on the lat pull down machine. I couldn't feel my lats engaging till it got serious so my form improved with a heavier weight and I'm not sure it was just more mental focus IYSWIM.

@everycowandagain good luck! By the sounds of it you will be PR's all round! Progressive overload and consistency very much does work!

Lifting psychology is super interesting. I'm similar to @RayKray in the fact I nearly always train to RPE 7/8, and will have spotters if it's a max effort so never really fear failing it.

However, I have psyched myself out of a 1RM attempt in the past, but changing my routine and approach, and making the base line more solid (paying attention to set up, equipment etc regardless of weight) means it's not an issue so much anymore as I control everything I can about how it will "feel" regardless of the weight.

I also trust my coach now, and due to their approach, I don't feel over faced by a weight increase/new 1rm as try to trust the process. I'm aiming for some big new PR's in a few months after doing a 5kg PB in squats and 7.5kg in deadlift last comp so we shall see if my theorising works!!!

@RayKray Oh that’s really interesting. It’s far, far better for me to be like “ah well if I don’t get it it doesn’t matter”. Then at least I’ll have a go. If missing a 1RM attempt leaves you very annoyed for days, for me that doesn’t make sense as an approach.

Yes training to RPE 11 is not something one can do often as it’s so demanding; I still believe in it as a training effect though. The low weight bench reps to failure exercise is fun if a bit surreal.

Usually my weights for training are based off previous numbers, I don’t train by RPE much. I’m quite lazy in lots of ways and I think I would tend to underestimate my numbers if I did that.

There is also a safety element to learning to fail a lift, especially squat.

I have failed lifts, so I do know how to fail them safely. So I'm not scared of failing, I remember being scared before it had ever happened, then realising you just put it down on the safeties that are right there. Or when I did fail a squat at comp I was whisked up by the spotters before I even realised.

My coach is always right there telling me what to lift, and he will push me, so there is no picking lighter weights to avoid failing. He just has good judgement and I have a high level of trust in that judgement. Earlier this week he did tell me to load a number that was heavier than I'd have picked, and he was right I got them.

I've just recalled I did also fail a squat in the gym pre last comp so he got me to do it again as he knew I could do it. Then we didn't do the back offs so as not to do too much intensity as a result. And I did indeed get it the 2nd go. And then put 5kg more on it at comp, so a weight I'd never done before. We don't discuss attempts, so first thing I knew was when it popped up on the screen, so I just thought 'well if that's what he thinks I can do then that's what I'll do', didn't enter my head I wouldn't. He watches me lift a lot.

If it was a bit more erratic and I was often failing, and sometimes his judgement was off, or if I had a history of never going 9 for 9, I don't think that would help my mindset on the platform. Lifting for me is very much a mental game so as I'm walking on I need to believe I will get that lift. And I do every lift in the gym like a comp lift so that would include mindset.

Some amazing advice here, and I take something useful from all of you who are much further along in your powerlifting careers than me.

@RayKray I love your data driven approach. I absolutely need to trust the evidence from my training (and trust my coach) much more instead of listening to the voice in my head.

@erinaceous I happily fail bench and it's no biggie, I think I need to get to the same point on squats so that I can take myself to my limit. Especially when testing maxes which I think is different to trying to go 9/9 in a comp.

@2andadog I am working on making that baseline more solid, every rep exactly the same, not freaking out and doing something different. Great advice!

I also thought this was great:

It's a powerlifting coach called Jason Blaha talking about getting over the fear of a heavy squat and he advises being really calm (as opposed to going nuts on pre workout and being really aggressive) and also he said that if it feels heavier than it should then you need to get tighter under the bar which I have really noticed.

And @erinaceus I also came across the idea that it feels heavy because it is, and you have to acknowledge it, trust yourself and get on with it.

So helpful, thank you all!!

@RayKray Yes the comment about failing lifts was more aimed at others who might be reading. Failing the squat safely is a skill and it can be dangerous to get it wrong.

It’s so interesting to read others’ approaches. For me when I am doing a set for reps (eg 3 sets of 5 reps same weight) I am far more likely to fail the last rep mentally than physically, to rack the bar and not try. It’s like my mind giving way. I agree that aiming to locate your max is not the same thing as going 9/9; for me there is an element of if you fail a lift you know where your max is. It is also extra gratifying when you get that weight later on.

I agree with others that trusting your coach is key. You short change yourself a good deal if you don’t have trust in your coach. I have seen others come unstuck this way.

I don’t like failing bench in part because I’m not good at asking for a spot at my gym and I had to do the dead-bug thing lately and be rescued 😳

Checking in to see how @everycowandagain ’s 1RM went!

It's tomorrow @YellowAsteroid!! Cross your fingers for me and I'll report back....

Good luck @everycowandagain !
I finally got back in the gym and did a full workout (after injury I was ill for a few weeks and either didn't train or did something very light)

I can bench press again though, which is good! Still feeling some tightness in my shoulder but it's not the instant weakness I felt last time I tried it. Had to drop my weight a lot but I know it'll come back. Also tried push press for the first time which was weird but not as bad as I thought!

@everycowandagain all crossed - but I'm sure you won't need that!

@Proteinpud that's good news. Is great when you get back and it all feels normal isn't it - you know you can rebuild strength from that.

@Proteinpud glad to hear you are easing back in. Take it steady.