Lifting support thread 2

[RayKray]

Just noticed I was the last to post on the lifting support thread as it went to 1k so here's another.

Original thread intro post here from
@Work2live

"Thought I’d start this thread as a few people thought it’d be a good idea.

"It might be a nice place to support each other and talk about lifting in general, ask for tips and advice on workouts, how to get enough protein etc.

"All levels very much welcome, from complete newbies to those who’ve been weightlifting for years! 💪🏼"

Please don't feel you have to answer @MistyTrains but do you want to be calorie counting? If you only want to lose 4lbs and are new to lifting, that might well be possible just by eating healthily and filling up on protein, like @RayKray and I do? I am just struck by your saying you are tired after workouts and hungry.....I've also found my weight does vary a bit with lifting and it isn't worth worrying about too much, after a tough session I am very hungry and thirsty the next day but it all balances out. I think Molly Galbraith and Jason and Lauren Pak on insta are good on the fuel-to-lift approach.

Just a thought and please feel free to ignore me!

@MistyTrains I think there’s actually a lot of value in being aware of calories, but only to a point.

Before I started on this journey I had no idea what 500 cals looked like. Literally after a few weeks of tracking I got pretty good at ‘guesstimating’ the amount of calories in snacks/meals without even needing to calculate it using MyFitnessPal.

So I think it can be useful to understand roughly how much you should be eating, and what that looks like, as a base to work from, but I wouldn’t take it all as gospel.

I eat pretty intuitively now and don’t explicitly count calories. I eat more when I need to (e.g. after a heavy training day/long hike), or will make a choice to eat slightly less throughout the day if I know I’m going for a meal out in the evening etc. It works well for me.

It’s worth remembering that hormones can have a huge impact too, and being aware of that and allowing yourself to eat slightly differently during those times.

@MistyTrains again feel free to ignore if this isn't helpful, but I do agree with @MsMartini . I'm not even cutting to compete because it can be a pretty miserable business to reduce calories when training, as your body needs the fuel. And I found I really liberating to see my body as something strong and powerful that needs fuelling. A few lb is such a small amount to lose in the longer term as part of a healthier lifestyle rather than needing immediate action which makes training harder. If it's a priority for you then of course that's different, but if getting strong is the priority then it would be a shame to detract from that.

Thanks for the replies, I do appreciate it. I should have said I'm no longer trying to lose 4lbs as I realised pretty quickly that I'd have to miserably restrict myself. That was quite liberating.

The food thing is interesting. I was doing Fast800 to lose weight and then I started strength training and here we are. I've put back about 2.5lbs that took me a month of immense will power to lose 😅 but I don't mind as it resembles muscle. Having a calorie goal is kind of helpful as it's educating me. I've also not slipped back into old ways of bingeing on sugar. I think it's also on the macros too. I think I need to make myself a a list - what 200g carb looks like, 150g protein etc., how much that is in calories. That might help.

I think I've gained about 4-5kg since a year ago. But my waist is smaller. And I have a lot more muscle.

One thing I find useful for fuelling is looking at protein to calorie ratio. If something has 10g of protein anything above 100 calories starts to be a less good ratio. That's what I read one time anyway. And I do use little things like that to make sure I'm fuelling in a good way. I also have lots of snacks to keep me going. So far today I've had cereal for breakfast, then across the morning fage yogurt oats and fruit, an apple and a protein shake. I'm now about to get lunch. If I let myself get hungry it's not great. So I do think about what I'm eating in terms of fuelling by which I mean protein, other nutrients and not going long without food. I don't think of it in terms of weight loss. Although in reality I'm trying to have an efficient body with more muscle and less fat longer term, but that's an ongoing part of my overall training rather than a right now with lots of immediate effort thing.

Its crazy when I think about my previous obsession with losing the last few pounds. I need that weight in the form of muscle to be strong.

That's a good tip about the 10% protein.

I think I worked out what is up this week. I am coming down with something. It's like beginnings of urine infection or a cold. I've cancelled tomorrows gym session. I'm wondering if I don't work out until Monday....will I lose any gains? I think fresh air walks would be good but the best thing for me would be a lot of sleep.

You won't lose any gains. And often a rest will result in more gains as your body has a chance to recover. Rest and sleep is really important. I'm pretty focused on rest and sleep as otherwise I'd happily run myself into the ground. And it's essential for the gainz! Train, fuel and sleep.

Totally agree @RayKray . And @MistyTrains I have learned the hard way that training through minor illness just prolongs it. Look after yourself, eat, sleep and drink, take it easy till you are better. You will quickly get back up to speed again when your body is not under stress from illness. And a break sometimes is good even when we aren't ill, mentally as well as physically IMO and IME.

Aww thank you that is such awesome advice from two lovely people on the internet!

Just came back to say had a solid 8 hours sleep last night and feel waaay better. I think this is a real wake up call for me on sleep as I have been averaging 5.5 hours a night since I started tracking in May. I'm going to really aim for 8 hours a night now and even 9 at the weekend. I think that was how I used to sleep in my 20s. It's really an essential part of recovery. I've known for ages I need to improve that and I am doing it now.

Great news @MistyTrains . I've been a terrible sleeper for much of my life but have reformed my ways recently and feel so much better. Rest and recovery really is part of training and taking yourself seriously I think.

@MsMartini so true....been reading up and it's about 80-90 minutes deep sleep we need a night, and 7 hours ideally in total minimum. It's a choice fundamentally, if I want my body to lift weights I 100% have to give it recovery time which includes sleep time. Good to know it's possible to reform.

Could someone tell me please how much protein they think I should be eating a day to build muscle? I'm 120lb and body fat low and late 50's
I've been aiming for 120g protein a day but wondering if this is enough given my age? Various calculators say more - up to 170g on one which would be a stretch
Any thoughts?

I do double my kg body weight in grams. But building muscle is a priority for me so it depends what your goals are.

And how's the sleep going @MistyTrains . I have naps at the moment to keep my sleep topped up and it makes a big difference.

@wwyd2021medicine Scientifically there is not much evidence that more than 1.6g of protein per kg of body weight makes a difference. I do find higher protein helps massively with DOMS though- I get virtually none (my diet is also very anti inflammatory). I think the other reason higher protein can be useful is that it increases overall calories. If I want to build muscle I've got to eat basically.

I'm on about 150g which is about 2.5g for me and a bit hard to achieve plus not amazing on my digestion. About 2g of protein per kg would be more comfortable but for short term I am sticking with my trainers plan.

@RayKray Work in progress, had one great night, but some social things came up and now have some stressful work things so I won't be back onto focusing on it until Wednesday. But I will get more consistent!

Missed two workouts now, but I walked 30,000 steps yesterday at an event. Getting back to it on with a workout on Wednesday eve.

Here's a review of some science on protein written by medics who are also lifters.

www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/barbell-medicine-protein-recommendations/

@wwyd2021medicine I think some of it is trial and error. I'm 130lbs and I aim for around 120g a day, but that can fluctuate between 90g to 140g depending on the day (lower days are usually if I've had to grab food on the go) I probably average around 100-110, I am still making progress and building muscle on that though.

I know that some people will have a 'more is more' approach, but two things to keep in mind (at least from my experience) would be -

Protein is very satiating, and it's still calories. If were to eat 170g + a day, I know I'd struggle to eat it (at all). I certainly know that I'd struggle to eat that much protein and keep under my overall calorie target, unless I was either replacing meals with shakes or nibbling on plain chicken for snacks, neither of which I want to do. I'm not trying to lose weight but I also don't want a huge calorie surplus. I know I'd run the risk of cutting down on other important food groups to find room for the protein and that's not great.

A lot of people find that too much protein will give them digestion issues, eg if it's a lot of meat, slower digestion/constipation, if it's a lot of protein shakes, feeling bloated or gassy. Also compounded by the satiety issue, because if you're feeling really full on protein you're less likely to fit in the fruits & veg & other sources of nutrition that you also need to be eating.

Of course there will be some people who find it manageable, whether it just suits them, or they can find a way of eating that works (eg for keto it's possible to eat v high protein and be relatively low calorie overall, and some people feel energised on keto diets, I'm not one of them!)

I think it's worth playing around with, a good benchmark is to aim for the 1g per lb of bodyweight at least because it's an easy target to work out and aim for, and adjust up or down as needed. Ultimately it needs to be sustainable for you.

Thank you
I'll just have to look carefully at the age issue and the science. I've been eating at 1g per pound bw (so 120g) for 14 months and l like others, I'd struggle to eat much more protein tbh. Sometimes its really hard to finish my dinner.
Some calculators with age put me on 150-170g for muscle building

Another one who struggles to get more than 100g protein each day, although my 3 meals (I eat in an 8 hour window, with 3 meals in that time) are eggs with tomatoes & spinach & cheese; chicken or tuna or salmon, with broccoli, avocado, tomatoes; and then 5% fat Greek yoghurt with a handful of nuts & seeds & a cut up banana or pear in there.

It's a very healthy diet, very "clean" comes in at about 1500 calories (I need to drop about 7 kilos) and it's as high in lean protein as I can make it.

I may have to start protein shakes or creatine or something, but they're soooo processed.

@DollyParkin this might be the lesser of the evils rather than a whole food, but some protein yogurts are minimally processed, low calorie and provide a similar amount of protein as a shake. Some are pretty much quark + flavouring. Not that they advertise the quark ingredient, it's not exactly a fashionable food stuff!
Another option I go to sometimes is mixing tuna with cottage cheese rather than mayo, that bumps up the protein pretty well.

Regularly getting around 100g of protein a day is decent enough for most women though, especially if you're consistent with it.

I never get the issue with protein powder. It's a by product of dairy, so for me if I eat cheese/milk/yogurt why not whey which is a more efficient way of getting the protein. Maybe I just have low standards. I avoid the ready made shakes generally speaking as they look worse. But everything is a balance and for me protein matters more. I'd rather powder than it all coming from cheap chicken for example. Or eating too much tuna.

Protein powders are mostly fine if you do your research and find a good quality one, the main issue with them right now is the price! Eye-watering.

@DollyParkin creatine is one of the most widely researched supplements on the market - it’s very safe and improves both physical and cognitive ability. Definitely worth taking.

I use optimum nutrition gold standard and it's about 80p per scoop which is 24g protein.