How do we get pony on the bit?

[oldernowiser]

Hi,
Is it ok to join you in the tack room to ask for advice? (new to Mumsnet)

We've got a lovely pony who we've had for about 2 months (grandaughter's pony, both gcs live with us, just so I don't sound like interfering granny when I seem over involved).

We're delighted with him, he's nicely behaved, lovely in the stable and a nice ride except that she's really struggling to get him on the bit consistently. Although he's well behaved he tends to have his head a bit high, especially in trot, and she really needs to work on this with him.

The trouble is, I don't think she really understands and I'm struggling with how to explain it in a way she gets. She has 2 private lessons and a group lesson a week on him and her instructor is great and patient and explains things well but I just don't think she quite gets it.

Does anyone have any advice? Sorry to be a bit rambling!

Have you tried looking the book Centred Riding? It has some nice illustrations in it which could help a child understand some of the concepts of how to use hands and legs to get a horse / pony round / on the bit.

Can't remember who wrote it.

Here it is. Sally Swift.

Centered Riding

Thanks MrFibble, it looks just what I need, I've ordered it.

I don't think I appreciated what a big change it is from her having weekly lessons and I'm a bit rusty as I haven't ridden for about 25 years. Thank god for a patient livery owner!

On another subject have I left it too long? I'm itching to ride again, but a bit (very!) scared as I'm not as brave as when I was younger and the more I think about booking a lesson the more anxious I get. Anyone got any advice?

If you want to do it and you've got no physical reason why not then go for it. Just make sure you choose your horse and instructor carefully for your re-introduction. I'd go for private lessons first of all and explain your background and any fears / concerns you might have to the teacher and if you are happy with their response to your concerns go ahead and do it. Get yourself a decent hat though! I also found that when I was getting back into riding after DD and DS were born that wearing a body protector gave me confidence - I have no idea why but it did. I don't wear it anymore although I suppose I should.

Hope you manage to get back into the saddle again. There is nothing to beat hacking out. Good luck.

oldernotwiser I hope you're wiser than my mother... whom at 62 bought a 4 year old with a reputation for bucking... One helicopter emergency evacuation to hospital later she got rid of it and now rides more "trustworthy" nags! I'm still furious with her for refusing my 11 year old Haflinger whom you could read a newspaper on his back and instead she took the 4 yo!

As far as the pony goes - have you considered getting an equine dentist in to look at his teeth? I know "back in the day" nobody ever thought of such things, but it's all quite mainstream these days.

does he round up for other riders?

what a lovely grandma you must be. a pony, 3 lessons a week and your support . i am impressed. how old is your grand daughter ? my eldest daughter is 10 ( well in a few weeks) and is only really getting the whole riding thing now . she has some dyslexic tendencies and struggled until now to manage to remeber / process more than one thing at a time therefore couldn't do hands stuff and leg stuff at same time.

Skihorse, your mother's a lot braver than me, I'm aiming for a quiet hack on a horse who can only just be bothered (and who's not too big!)

I had his teeth, back and tack all checked during first month with us and he's fine

MitchyInge, he will round up for the experienced adult who's riding him, when she absolutely insists, so I think it's a bit of reluctance on his part combined with grand daughter's incomplete grasp.

Her instructor suggests lungeing him regularly in side reins, so I'm going to try that. I wondered if I might also lunge with grand daughter on board, what do you all think?

Mummydoc, she's also 10, so maybe I'm expecting a bit much. I'm not that lovely, I always wanted a pony and couldn't have one when I was young so I'm loving it at least as much as her!

I'm investing in lessons because when we went to see pony he was a bit stiff and a bit on the thin side and so was as quiet as anything. We've got him on a joint supplement and have got weight onto him, and he's muscling up nicely so he's a bit more than we anticipated.

He's not silly or anything, just seems to be enjoying how well he feels so I'm hoping that if we really work on her skills and confidence, and get some 'saddle hours' under her belt then come the spring they'll hopefully be a good partnership

I must stop going on so much, does the skill of being brief come with experience?

This is a bit of an open-ended topic. It's really difficult to say why a pony would tend to hollow rather than go in a rounded outline without seeing the pony and rider in action but here are a couple of thoughts which might give you something to go on.

First, make sure the pony's comfortable. As Skihorse says, are his teeth ok? Does his tack fit properly? If his saddle's tight or restrictive in any way, he'll be reluctant to round his back and lower his head. Bit comfy, not pinching? Browband wide enough?

Looking at the schooling angle there needs to be a fair bit in place before a horse can go in a rounded outline. It needs to be going sufficiently forward - enough impulsion/energy - in a good rhythm, and also straight (by which I mean not crooked, escaping out of one shoulder or another). The rider needs to be sitting more or less correctly (none of us are perfect unless we're C Hester or someone) and riding the pony forward into soft, receiving hands. Yes there must be sufficient contact for the rider to be able to influence the mouth through the bit, but that contact needs to be elastic and consistent. That's what my DCs struggle with at the moment - just being able to keep their hands still enough. Centred Riding's good, and there's also a Sylvia Loch book called "A Kinder Way to Ride your Pony" which is designed for children.

OK...if we're happy about these things so far (and no-one's nodded off to sleep yet) we can perhaps think about some specific exercises to get the pony to lower his head and lift his back into a rounder frame. Will the pony soften his jaw and round at the poll in a halt? If so it seems he understands the rein aid to soften and relax his jaw which is what you need. Then, a basic 20-metre circle is a good place to start. Check your shape, the quality of the pace (energy, rhythm etc), make sure the pony's not leaning out with one shoulder, then gently ask for a softening of the jaw on the inside rein. Once he gives it, the rider can yield with the outside hand, but shouldn't drop the contact on the inside - just hold it soft and steady. The idea is that it is comfortable for the pony so he wants to stay in that outline.

Are they happy going over poles? Walking or trotting poles, especially on a circle, can encourage a lowered head and rounder frame.

How's their canter transitions? Repeated trot/canter transitions, not spending too long in each pace, are excellent at gently stretching the long back muscles which, if tense, won't allow a rounder frame.

There are several other things such as some lateral exercises which are great for softening/lifting the back and dealing with hollowness but I'm not sure if they would be too much for the pony/rider combo at the moment (not being rude - my kids can't go sideways yet)...but let me know if you want more ideas.

Hope that helps.

Many thanks all of you. I think Dressagenut has a point, her hands are not as still as all that so that's definitely something to work on. I'll have a look at the Sylvia Loch book.

DD is 6 and struggles to get her show ponies in an outline by herself.

For general hacking out they go out in draw reins (slightly long) so they are lightly on the bit but not in a forced position.

For schooling they wear a rubber bungee - specially designed for the job and available from good saddlers. They go lovely in it.

If you do enough schooling with these we've found their shape is better and they more naturally respond to the hands when in the show ring.

For our young connemara we ride her in a Market Harborough to keep her from putting her head up. Going on the bit is done gradually as she is ridden by an experienced adult (DW).

Many thanks again, this gives me loads to work on, and a really good sense of perspective.

I think, to be honest, that I am worrying/expecting too much. I'm going to relax, trust her instructor (who is just fantastic) and concentrate on getting myself riding again, so I can go out hacking with her.

Many thanks again, this gives me loads to work on, and a really good sense of perspective.

I think, to be honest, that I am worrying/expecting too much. I'm going to relax, trust her instructor (who is just fantastic) and concentrate on getting myself riding again, so I can go out hacking with her.

Dressage nut talks loads of sense. I wouldnt resort to gear unless you really need it as it will give you a false sense of what she can do and wont help the pony in the long run. There arent that many 10 year olds who can consistently ride a pony in an outline and if you are hacking and under control it really doesnt matter. I wouldnt ride my big horse on the bit for hours on end and she will do a good dressage test when required and also stops on demand out hunting. A forward going pony that is straight, not stiff and obedient is far more important. The outline will come in time and be much more consistent if you dont force it

I honestly don't think you can 'get a pony on the bit' from reading advice. Unfortunately it is one of those things that requires lessons and practice and more lessons and more practice.

Plus there can be about 10000000 reasons why a pony isn't on the bit - usually it is down to rider technique but can be due to ill fitting tack, sore mouth, lack of fitness, stiff joints, incorrect muscle development.... I could go on. Some ponies cannot physically work on the bit due to their confirmation (the bigger highland types often have necks too thick to maintain the position for example)

To get a pony on the bit you need to ride him forward from behind, engage the hindquarters and balance him off his hind legs and then have him soft, supple and totally trusting in front, lifting through the shoulder and back and carrying himself completely correctly. His mouth should be completely relaxed and accepting of the bit, waiting for the tiniest instruction from the rider.

the rider requires a totally independant seat, good feel, an ability to adjust her balance to influence the pony and very soft, responsive hands. Not a lot of young people have this sort of 'feel' yet - it is something that develops as they grown older - so they focus on the front end look of a pony on the bit (i.e. that the head is on the vertical) and start fiddling with the pony's mouth to achieve the "look". Inevitably they end up sawing the bit in the pony's mouth to 'force' him to tuck his nose into his chest not realising that his hind quarters are trailing and he's firmly on the forehand!

Personally I loathe the term "on the bit" as it really does focus the rider on mucking about with the front end and not riding the back end. I prefer to describe it as "working round" or "working in an outline" which helps give the message to the rider that the horse's entire body is involved in achieving this look, not just forcing the head in with draw reins or by fiddling with the mouth for hours on end.

Keep up the regular lessons with a good qualified instructor and let the outline develop in its own time. As long as your grand-daughter is having fun and is safe, don't allow her to be influenced by anyone who thinks cranking the head into the pony's chest is a sign of good riding!

What a lot of sense you all talk. Grand daughter is getting much better at engaging the back end and he's going much better for her. We're playing loads of games to develop her independence with her hands and as you suggest, having lots of fun.

Great to hear it. Keep us informed of progress!

Coming to this a bit late, but something that caught my eye and may be relevant if your GD is still having problems...

• you've had the pony about 3 months now
• when you got him he was underweight and undermuscled
• when you bought him you had his teeth, back, tack all checked and were fine
• since you've had him he's put on weight and muscle nicely

It would be worth getting his saddle checked again. If it fitted when you bought him then, given how well he seems to have done, its a distinct possibility that its now a bit tight. At one point our mare used to muscle up so fast we had to get the tree widened every 3 to 6 months, and she was starting off with a reasonable figure...

Sounds like they're doing really well though . I really wish I'd had the opportunity to learn when I was young - I didn't start till I was 28 and was/am far too aware of the consequences of coming off hard. Your GD's a lucky girl

Good point Tangle. I'll get onto it. By the way, when I said he was a bit underweight I did mean just a bit! I wouldn't want it to sound as though he wasn't well looked after at his last home, they are lovely horsey people who take good care of their horses, but he'd been a bit out of work so a bit out of condition if you see what I mean

we are having great fun coaxing our pony into an outline, I must must must film or photograph the faces he pulls if you even think of asking him to bring his nose in half an inch

at the moment just doing tiny half-halts alternate hands when he is going forward nicely but he is extremely unimpressed with this, however quietly you ask

to be fair on him he doesn't know his job yet, but haven't met a grumpier or lazier beast in my life

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply he was neglected at all when you got him, just that a couple of points you'd made suggested he could have changed shape since then, and from personal experience that can have a major impact on saddle fit (we had to get Fat Mare's tree widened every 4-6 months for a couple of years as she was muscling up so fast. And she was loosing fat at the same time - she got her name for a reason...).

If you do get the fitter out its worth getting them to show you how to do a rough check for fit so you can keep an eye on it in between whiles

He has changed shape a bit, and the saddle is slipping back a bit so you could well be right. It's definitely worth a look.

Tangle, I was just concerned not to be giving the wrong impression of last owners, no offence meant or taken at all.

Mitchy, I'd be interested in any tips you find work!

Next week is when I finally get back in the saddle, so wish me luck (or courage, more to the point!)