Buying a horse now is like a game where I don’t understand the rules. Advice please?

[regretsivehadaload]

When I bought my last horse he was advertised on Horse & Hound for £2.5k. Welsh’s Sect D 6yo. We paid a bit more to have him with his existing tack and rugs.

Had him for the rest of his life.

Im soon going to be in a position to potentially buy another horse.

Im looking on Facebook but it’s all so cloak and dagger. What does 2 🥕 mean? £2000?

Ive also seen ‘high 4 figures’ and ‘3 figures’ I presume people message to get the price but it’s so off putting.

I hate ‘no time wasters’. It’s a massive purchase - there’s so much to consider. If a buyer turns up and ultimately decides it’s not for them then surely that’s a good thing?

Dealers have been around forever, and auctions etc so I wouldn’t consider this but private buyers seem to be unapproachable.

I dunno. As I said it’s been over 30 years since I last did this.

Any pointers please?

Yep unbacked isn’t always a guarantee, I’ve a friend who did it a few years ago did everything right, super reputable breeder, x rays, met older half siblings, vetting, etc etc, the horse just has not stood up to ridden work at all despite being produced super slowly. She’s now got a 7 year old lawnmower who’s cost her about £30k in vet bills. 😬

All you can do with horses is reduce the odds of things going wrong. It isn't possible to reduce this to Zero, unfortunately.

The two best ways are to 1) buy a genuinely unbacked horse, and 2) buy a horse that is already doing the job that you want it for. Each of these options has different risks. One or the other will be more suitable depending on the new home.

I bought an unbacked cob from a dealer and it has worked out well. The dealer was in my world (we had ridden in the same hunt) and had a good reputation. The dealers partner backed horses and as a cob, he was easy to back. Job done & dusted in two months. Cost 1.5 times normal livery.
However, he did need producing, which was somewhat beyond me, so the owner of the first yard I kept him at rode him 2-3times a week for a couple of months, while I rode as well. Bought at 4, now 10 & is a super little sports cob.

These posts are so interesting. Thank you

I would add think about approaching the breed society if you want a specific breed.

Often have sales lists plus the secretary frequently knows who might be just thinking of selling too.

Particularly useful for rarer breeds as it is a small world and everyone knows everybody's business!

This is excellent because therefore no porkie pies are possible so you know your prospective new equine’s full history.

I have gone this route for my Highlands and for friends Icelandics and Fjords.

I would love an Icelandic, only ridden one once but wow. Shame there are not more.

They are wonderful. I had one on loan and she was very forward but had excellent manners both ground and ridden, reliable brakes and not at all spooky or silly.

Icys are generally brought up slightly differently as left to mature in a herd and not so much early handling. I have yet to meet a bargy one.

They are pricey though!

The trouble with wanting a specific breed is it again leads you down a path of buying very young/unbroken, as the chances (unless it's a very popular/ common breed) of finding an older but still sound horse, well trained and doing the job you want, in your travel distance and budget AND it's a specific breed are small - of course it can be done but in buying an older general purpose horse having some breed flexibility does widen things up dramatically.

OP hasn't really told us anything about what she wants the horse for or her background etc but I can only speak to my own experience of buying young / green /unbroken stock and bringing them on myself, as a lifelong rider/owner so with some experience but still very much an amateur/ average at best rider. Generally I'd have to say I wouldn't recommend it. I can see the theory in that it's better to start from a clean slate and build to your preferences than to try and re-do someone else's work but I think you have to really, really enjoy the process as well rather than just wanting the end point. Certainly I would say if your aim is to save money or time my experience was very much the reverse. Yes I spent next to nothing (in one case literally nothing) on acquiring the horses, but I spent so much more on professional help (and in one case, vet bills for chronic lameness that became apparent after backing that couldn't have been predicted from her health as a youngster) I don't think I saved anything compared to just buying an older horse already doing the job. Despite in general enjoying schooling and training and bringing on horses and being somewhat competent, I found the stress of being fully responsible for a youngster from scratch pretty considerable, and I never fell of as much or was as scared of falling as when riding the babies 😨. It took a very long time until either were the reliable, easy ride I wanted (in fact one never really got there due to aforementioned lameness). And then, even when I did eventually get there with one horse, she ended up not suiting me physically (smaller than predicted) or personality wise really, so I eventually loaned her out.

I realise I'm a sample size of 2 so I don't want to be doom and gloom, if buying a youngster is what your heart desires then go for it, but if I was to ever buy another horse I'd 100% take the undoubted hassle and stress of dashing about doing viewings with time waster sellers and failed vettings and so on (and I fully agree buying an older horse is a gamble too, no guarantees either way) than ever put myself through another youngster!

@maxelly I have bought fully trained mature ponies from breed society pages or word of mouth via secretaries in fact my last pony was bought at age 15 as the ultimate schoolmistress.

I completely agree about the ups and downs of buying youngsters though.

You are far more protected buying from a dealer and there are some very very good ones out there. What are you after?

It really does depend what you want out of it. I am a horse lover first and rider second. If all I am able to do is groom and cuddle I am fine with that. Owning gets me out in all weathers, keeps me fit etc. The dream for me would be looking out of my window at my own horse rather than winning a sash.

Thank you all again. In no particular order here are my answers/thoughts.

I don’t have a particular breed preference.
I don’t know enough people yet to help with a project/youngster.
I would really enjoy an all rounder. Never been keen on dressage but loved XC & SJ. Local shows and hacking.

It’s a funny position to be in. I’m an AI but haven’t ridden properly and regularly for a long time. So I have knowledge and experience but am no longer a gutsy teen.

I don’t think I’m going to be buying anytime soon. I am going to book an assessment lesson at the local riding school. I need to just make a start. From there conversations begin and research/time is spent back in that world.

If you have the budget, rather than going to a dealer, you could employ an agent to find prospective horses for you. I did this a couple of decades ago as I needed something very specific. The first one I viewed was just what I wanted.

Hate no time wasters too, if they only give a photo and height with a pic of a horse in a yard what are you meant to do except ask are they ongoing, quiet? Good on the road, what age are they etc. hardly time wasting!!!!

Oooh like a Kirsty & Phil? Never heard of that. I can see the benefit for sure.

Yes.

me too, every time!

It's hard as a seller as well as a buyer these days. I've got a colt for sale and the amount of people who are definitely time wasters messaging me that i have to whittle out is insane

If anyone is looking for UK Icelandics atm though WHW will be rehoming lots over the next few years. Lots of young stock as well as a few older ones.

Just out of interest if you’re prepared to share… what is it that people are doing in terms of time wasting?

I’ve never sold a horse. I have bought one and loaned a couple. I am nowhere near ready to look at buying yet so no risk of offending!

he's a rising 2 year old and i get questions like...
"have you started lunging yet"
"is he bombproof"
"I'm 11 and this would be my first pony"
"Does he come with tack"
"Can he go out with mares"
"I don't have turnout, what's he like staying in?"

Those questions all tell me you've no place to own colts/youngsters

Then i get the people who ask all the right questions over 2-3 emails, then say "well you're 5 hours away so i'll let you know if i can find time to come down" and you never hear from them again.

i had people view him recently, he has brilliant conf and manners to die for and he's won a fair bit in the show ring for his age. He's a great example of his breed with no lumps or bumps. They were super keen but then messaged after saying they found a couple of things they want a second opinion on. He's clean and dead straight. No idea what they were concerned about but no point asking because there's nothing to be concerned about.

At this point i might just compete him this summer then re-advertise!

Oh no, that is terrible!

To leap in from my own and my friends' experiences as a seller (and to be clear I've had equally bad experiences as a buyer, and also have mainly had good experiences, these are the minority) the major time-wasting 'crimes' are, in order of frequency:

1. Not reading the advert, no matter how clear and simple/honest it is, and ringing up (or worse, coming to view) and having loads of stupid questions that are either right there in the advert or (should be) obvious - how old is he? How big? Is he suitable for a novice child (err no it's a 2 year old unbroken colt as per the advert)? Will he jump round badminton (doubtful as it's a Welsh A to make 12hh)? is he available for loan or share? Sometimes then getting arsey about the responses or trying to get you to say the horse could be suitable for their granny to hunt or whatever and doing sadface when you won't/ can't agree.
2. Related, even if there's lots on the advert, asking for loads of extra pics/vids - I would never mind providing lots of pictures/ videos that I already have of the horse doing normal stuff but it's when they want extras you have to make specially, like can I see him loading, can I see him being caught and brought in - I'll happily do it for a serious buyer although they can see him doing all that live on the viewing but it's when they ask for the videos then just disappear or say oh no sorry can't afford him actually or other spurious reason.
3. Booking viewings (sometimes being quite demanding and/or flaky about when you'll come, or giving very little info) then not turning up. Or turning up, taking one look at horse and saying no for no reason at all, or giving a stupid reason - often something very clear from advert e.g. height, colour. Of course not every viewer will buy but I've often had to go to a lot of effort for each viewing, time off work or arrange family commitments to be there, make horse and tack presentable, ensure school is free etc. - you don't have to buy the horse or even honestly explain why not if you don't want to but don't book to view if you're not reasonably serious about buying and are clear from the information you have from the advert and seller that the horse is what you're looking for.
4. Ghosting in general, asking lots and lots of questions sometimes spaced out over days or weeks, generally being demanding or flaky, coming for viewings, sometimes multiple, then disappearing completely or again just giving some wishy washy explanation. I get that no-one has to buy my horse and if there's answers to genuine questions that aren't what you wanted to hear or you've found a better option then completely fair, also unexpected life events do happen, but please don't take up people's time if it turns out you don't actually have the money to buy a horse at all/parents or partner have said you can't have a horse/you're pregnant/you're moving to Timbuktu/you've decided you actually want a warmblood when I'm selling a cob or other silly things like that.
5. Being dishonest about yourself and your situation. There's really no shame if you're a beginner or if your yard situation or whatever isn't ideal but it's huge, huge waste of time to call up about a high end competition horse saying you're an experienced dressage rider wanting something to take to Grand Prix and then turn up to view and immediately fall off the high powered warmblood - or indeed vice versa and pretend you just want a little happy hacker and then get disappointed my 14.2 hairy cob won't go around a 1m20. And generally as the seller, if I've put not suitable for a novice or doesn't hack or must live out 24/7, that's for a reason, don't play silly games trying to work out if that's negotiable/real or not, by all means call and ask/discuss but don't pretend that's fine by you then at the last minute spring on me that you're in fact a very nervous novice wanting to exclusively hack and keep the horse stabled all winter. You've just wasted your time as well as mine now as the horse is never going to be suitable and we could have established that in one conversation.
6. Excessive haggling - there's usually room for some negotiation for the right home and it's not wrong/offensive/time wasting to ask if there's flexibility, but I've had people (again multiple conversations, videos, viewings) tell me they'd love my horse (priced reasonably for his market value) but they're only prepared to pay peanuts (or will kindly take him off my hands on loan or for free). Sometimes adding a nice little guilt trip that they or their kids (I've mainly sold kids ponies) are emotionally attached now so I'll be hurting their feelings if I say no, giving me the whole sob story. Again if the price is an issue and you've a genuine reason why you think the price is wrong do say so at the outset and we can discuss, if there are adverse /unexpected vet findings then I would expect to give a discount but just saying at the very end oh my budget was only ever £1k when the horse is priced at £5k is ridiculous...

This is so interesting. Thankyou so much for providing such detailed responses. I feel this should be in a stand-alone pinned thread.

I love the idea of a Welsh Sect A doing Badminton though!

Oh I’ve just remembered this…. I worked at an RDA yard. Went to see a driving pony for a parent who wanted a pony for their disabled child. The pony was FANTASIC. Fed back to the parent. Price was £2.5k. Absolutely correct for age and skill/health.

some friend of the parent got involved and told the parent to haggle. Firstly she asked if the harness and tack could be thrown in. When the owner said no she gleefully offered £1600. The owner put the phone down on her.

After some careful reassurance and tactical phone calls the price was paid and tack purchased separately.

The pony was PTS last year having worked his whole life for them. Over 25 years (some retired).

Im so glad that it got sorted out - the owner could rightly have told them to piss off.