What to do next for 12yo DD?

[MoreIcedLattePlease]

Hello, horsey people.

I am not horsey, but DD is utterly obsessed and has been from the moment she could walk and talk. She's been riding since she was 4, though on and off as covid hit not long after she started.

When it calmed down, we enrolled her at a local school, and she's now been riding regularly (one lesson a week) for several years. The school she rides at has levels, which she is half way through.
She is confident in walk, trot and canter and has jumped many times, though I have no idea what height. They usually do cross poles, but she has also jumped straight ones happily. There is (I would say) a 1-2ft gap from the bottom of the pole to the ground?

I am worried that she is currently stagnating in progress, having been at the same level for over a year. New children have recently moved into the group who are noticeably less able and confident and the instructor is now having to teach to their level, leaving DD and the other children who've been there for a while unable to progress. I've tried to speak to the instructor about what DD needs to do in order to be moved up, but they couldn't offer any feedback at all?? Just "she isn't ready." Which would be fine, if she wasn't becoming bored. I've never seen her be anything other than elated at the end of lessons until recently, but now she feels she just isn't doing anything at all - and I'm inclined to agree with her.

We are coming to a point where we need to commit to further lessons where she is or give notice, but I'm not sure what is right to do. Ideally, I would love for her to move to a loan arrangement, but being non-horsey I worry I wouldn't be any use in helping whatsoever! The yard offer loans, but it is extortionate and we'd still need to pay the membership on top, so we'd be paying nearly £850 a month - ridiculous when I'm sure we could pay for our own horse for that?? (I might be deluded here, so do tell me if so).

My question here is: where do we go from here? We aren't able to do any eventing or competing as she doesn't own her own pony, and if it costs £800+ a month to do so, we simply cannot. Are we in any way likely to ever find a loan arrangment for a sensible 12 year old whose parents are willing, but inexperienced? We are in on the south coast, so not exactly surrounded by horsey people, really.

£850 a month is madness! When DD got to that level at her riding school we mostly focused on private lessons to fine tune things and get her ready for a part loan (and the independence that this brings). We were aiming to do this at the riding school (very costly and lots of limitations) but thankfully we were lucky and actually found a great part loan arrangement at a private yard via a school friend who was growing out of her pony. He was a true schoolmaster, as safe and patient as they come so he was the perfect first pony for DD to learn the ropes with.

She had him 2/3 days a week for £15/day on DIY livery. The yard was an ex riding school so lots of other similarly aged kids for DD to ride/socialise with. It was a busy yard - indoor/outdoor arenas, cross country course, weekly group and private lessons available for liveries alongside regular competitions so there was lots of opportunity for DD to continue developing her riding skills. I’m not horsey so it was certainly a steep learning curve for us in tacking up, grooming, stable management, making feeds etc but we were very well supported by the owners and other liveries on the yard who were always more than happy to teach/help. Loved it so much that we ended up buying DD a horse of her own a year later and the rest is (very expensive..) history!

As a side note.. £850 would be nothing in terms of owning your own horse I’m afraid. For a good first pony you’re looking at around £5k these days and that’s before you factor in livery (ours was considered very cheap at £200/month!), tack (££££), feed + haylage, bedding, vet/dental/equine physio bills, farrier, insurance, lessons, competition fees, horse trailer, riding wear etc. It all massively mounts up, never mind the amount of time and energy that caring for a horse takes up. It’s a lovely hobby but it consumes your entire life and wallet. I was quietly relieved when DD decided that the time had come to quit riding for uni… 😬

Thank you, this is very helpful! £15 a day sounds much nicer! I realise we may need to pay more than that, and that's OK, but £850pm isn't! The yard you found sounds incredible: I'm guessing you're nowhere near us, and it's no longer the same!

Where do you even find loans, if not through word of mouth? Local FB groups only ever seem to want adults (I completely understand why) and I don't know where else these things are advertised?

I think entirely forget the idea of owning your own or even loaning for the time being, it's simply too much time, too much money for a non horsey family and she's of an age and experience level where what she'll really benefit from is good quality lessons, as many of them as she can get. Revisit loaning or sharing in 2-3 years time.

For the time being I'd focus on getting her good tuition. That response from her instructor is really poor. Is she the yard owner/manager/senior instructor or relatively junior? You may need someone more experienced to see your DD ride to give you the feedback you need. I'm a big fan of group lessons for children in general but this is a risk, if it isn't a stable group that all progress at a similar rate it is common that some fall behind the others or new more novice ones join and then the whole lesson tends to go at the pace of the slowest one (a really good teacher will be able to differentiate and stretch the more able without over facing the less, but even at a very good and reputable school there will be better and worse teachers/more and less motivated ones). The simplest solution could be if there's a different group she could move to, not necessarily moving up a level if she's not ready but is there an intermediate working towards advanced type group rather than 'just moved up to intermediate from novice' type. A different teacher may be all you need, I've ridden at that type of very structured school in the past and there was a world of difference between the best teacher's 'advanced' group where she gave everyone brilliant personal feedback and corrections throughout so you learnt loads even from simple exercises to another teachers 'advanced' who basically set the exercise then spent most of her time sat on the block looking at her phone, while we might have technically been doing harder stuff in the latter class, you learnt very little as had no idea if you were doing it right/how you could improve.

Or if there's no other suitable group class, can she have some private lessons (perhaps with a more senior instructor) with the intention of assessing where she is at and what she needs to do to move up to the next class? Private lessons are usually shorter than group but you do achieve a lot. If neither are an option at your current school you may need to look at moving her. If you do do this, try and find a school which offers Pony Club alongside normal lessons, this would give her something new to learn in the PC badges and stable management/ care sessions as well as being great fun.

Thank you, this is also very helpful: and echos thoughts I have had. I am tempted to explore changing her group before giving up entirely with the school because, apart from this, I am very happy with them and DD adores the yard. Likewise, we have currently managed to get a coveted weekend slot, so it'll be a faff to give that up! Unfortunately, with regards to Pony Club, there is only one school within a 25 mile radius of us which is affiliated and we've tried it out and weren't keen.

DD regularly does (non-residential) camps and has completed a series of stable management lessons with current school too, which were brilliant.

I will speak to the school about the potential for a lesson or two to see what she needs to do to improve. The instructor is generally good in the lessons with coaching them, but - speaking as a teacher - can fall into the trap of not giving specific enough instructions and thinking the children just 'know' what they're supposed to do, at times. They've been instructing the group for just under a year now, so relatively new to the school, and I suspect the issue of not being able to guide on what she needs to do is more to do with not really understanding how the 'levels' system works, rather than not knowing how to improve DD's riding.

Hmm, I get what you're saying, there can be a lot of, for want of a better word, politics, going on about moving up a level at this type of school - limited slots available in the more advanced groups and other factors aside from who is the best rider go into who gets them - but if this really was an excellent instructor they would know how to stretch and improve your DD's riding even with the constraints of the current group and not leave her feeling bored and unsatisfied. TBH and this is going to sound a bit snarky, I say this as someone who's done plenty of riding at schools myself so not intentionally so, although I get that it feels very important for children in particular riding school 'levels' are really pretty meaningless in the real world. Even the most advanced class at a riding school is still really a novice when considering how much more challenging riding is on privately owned horses and going out to competitions etc. The amount of angst that can go on about when is little Jane going to move up a class and is it fair that little Jimmy got 'promoted' sooner than her, and is it because his mum is friends with the yard owner etc etc, it's all just a bit silly when what really matters is are Jane and Jimmy enjoying themselves and progressing. I think a great idea to get her some private lessons, even if the teacher could give her some pointers to take back to her group of things to be focussing on that would help?

To be honest, progress tends to visually 'stagnate' once jumping is taught because from there it's about developing a stronger seat, getting more experience on different horses and just more miles in the saddle. My instructor teaches at a RS and she said she's had parents get funny with her because nothing seems to obviously develop at this point, but it is. If she enjoys the lessons I'd continue as you are. Private lessons on an ad hoc basis may be good because she can specifically work on the little areas she needs to focus on around her group. Failing that, I'd move RS. Some near me teach children how to jump at a basic level and then stop focusing on much more than that until they're adults. This could be similar?

Part loans tend to be a case of who you know and not what you know and people do prefer loaning to kids and parents they know rather than ones they don't, that's why you don't see many ads. If I was looking for a pre teen/teen to loan mine, there's about 4 who regularly visit my yard as they know other liveries there who I'd approach first before advertising online.

I’d move to private lessons , 30 minutes on your own is so much more beneficial than a group hour , could you afford for her to do both as that would be ideal . Perhaps look further afield for a school with a PC centre . If you say roughly where you are somebody may be able to recommend somewhere .FWIW I had non horsey parents and we got our first horse when I was 11 having ridden since 4 but my parents were both keen to get involved so it is possible if you are keen .

@maxelly 100% there is definitely politics to yards that I'm happy to stay well out of! I'm not remotely bothered by what 'level' she is, as you say, it's largely meaningless in reality, what I'm actually bothered by is that lack of enjoyment and progress.

@Fyra yes, I completely get that, however it's that subtle improvement in control and seat etc that I'm just not seeing anymore. To be specific, DD understands how to use the space in the school and have awareness of others, whereas the newer intake just don't! It means much of the lessons are being wasted on things like etiquette, when 80% of the group have already nailed that - years ago.

@tinyspiny I've avoided private lessons so far, purely because on the odd occasion that we've had one, DD isn't keen. She prefers a group to the intensity of 1:1 with an instructor. That said, I'm going to speak to her about the possibility. We are in Hampshire, but close enough to the border with West Sussex and Surrey that we can happily get about a bit. There are lots of PC centres near us, but only one that actually offers riding, the others are all for those who already have access to their own pony.

You've all been really helpful in your advice, thank you.

Just to say, as a non horsey who has had loans for DD, with lessons I can’t always tell what they’re working on unless I can hear what the instructor is saying. (not always possible where we are), and even then sometimes I don’t understand 🤦‍♀️

Eg Sometimes it’s about getting pony to jump off the correct leg, or add an extra stride etc. Jumping position is just the start it seems. I would have no idea how to get a pony to jump off the right leg with the correct number of strides. I could point a pony at a jump and be a passenger over a jump, but it’s the refinements.

any chance your daughter is being taught stuff that’s just less obvious ? Total empathy btw. But join the local Facebook groups and keep an eye out for the unicorn - a pony living at home that needs a rider, with a school within hacking distance !

When I was her age, I would volunteer at the stables. Things have changed a bit now and I believe stable girls have a more formal arrangement but it taught me more about horse care than books could.

I echo pp comments about private lessons - if these are too expensive, pair up with someone else in her group who is under taxed.

These two things will help you work towards a part share/part loan agreement.

Through volunteering at my stables as a teen, I met a woman who had bought a pony for her 7 year old and he needed more regular taxing exercise, so I began to help them and ride her pony before moving to my own part loan.

FB does advertise part loan and part share for ponies, but I usually see this in hunting groups, so it is probably too advanced for where she is.

Wishing you luck!

If you’re in Hampshire have you tried Wellington? Even if you couldn’t go every week it would be worth having a lesson there every now and then. They also have fantastic residential holidays which helped my daughter come on in leaps and bounds at a similar stage to your daughter

I agree with others who have said when jumping progress does appear to slow down but it's just all practice - getting an eye for a stride, getting balanced and effective takes hours and hours of practicing.
I would have a look at individual lessons, £850 a month for a loan scheme seems insane!

Depending where you are in the country you could probably keep a pony on full livery for that (which I would actually reccomend as a non-horsey family if you can afford it!).

Thank you all, this is super helpful. I'm definitely erring towards smaller/more private lessons and if we can find the unicorn the right pony a potential share for couple of days a week.

I completely understand what you're all saying about refining and this being very subtle and difficult to track, but no - I don't think that's what's happening at the moment. In her last lesson, for instance, there were just 6 girls trotting/cantering around the arena for 45 minutes. Very little instruction. This was largely because two of them don't know how to use the arena properly and keep getting in others' way - fine, in theory, but 4 of them can do this and have done for years! It was honestly like watching them warm the ponies up for the entire lesson.

With her previous instructor it definitely was adding an extra side, ensuring taking off on the right leg etc - and now you've pointed it out I can see that's the sort of instruction that's missing from her lessons now.

@Pleasedontdothat no, we haven't as it's about as far away from us but still staying in Hampshire as you can get! We are very, very nearly in W.Sussex.

@Turmerictea She'd love to volunteer but her current yard has a minimum age of 13 for helping out, so she has a year to wait yet.

@renovationqueen glad I'm not being unreasonable thinking £850pm is silly money to not even own the pony!

@MoreIcedLattePlease In that case I’d definitely look at the Wellington residential weeks. The first time DD went she’d only ever jumped single fences and she came back confidently jumping (little) courses - I was amazed at how much progress she’d made in a few days. Riding twice a day, every day and spending hours grooming, tacking up, turning out, mucking out - it all helps boost confidence hugely and consolidates skills learned in one lesson as they can immediately put them into practice.

Worth looking around to see what other schools in the area offer. Some have pony club attached to the riding school which is an excellent opportunity if you don't have your own. If they offer shares at that yard then that opens up a whole load of opportunities.

Some riding schools are also livery yards so may have an owner looking for a sharer on site so she can have lessons & support from the staff.

If you aren't horsey & can afford it look for a share opportunity at a full livery yard with facilities & instructors on site. You would always have someone available to help tack up & supervise riding.

I've had sharers who were novice with novice non horsey mums & they only rode my pony for lessons. They had to groom & tack up but the instructor would obviously check the tack was okay before she got on.

Word of mouth, local pony club or young farmers, Facebook groups are all ways to find out about opportunities.

We're in London so far form you, but we just accepted a 12-year-old sharer with non-horsey parents for one of our ponies for 2 days per week. We liked her riding and confidence, but although she's only previously ridden at riding schools, she's been taking several lessons per week at different schools (including Wellington) for a number of years and my daughter is always at the yard with our other horses, so she can keep an eye on what she's doing/help her if necessary (also our ponies are on 5-day livery so not many yard duties). In your shoes I'd increase the number of lessons and try different instructors and get her as much riding as possible on different horses. Then it will be possible to find her a share.

If it's not too far for you to travel Kings Oak yard in Enfield often have ponies for share (used to be £30 per day)