Any experience of RoR?

[MrPickles73]

DD 15 has 16hh warmblood, DS 12 has 13.1 pony.

We've had warmblood 2 yrs and she has a lovely temperament and DD loves her very much. However she is a little unpredictable at SJ and more so at XC. We have been to plenty of PC rallies and camps. We tried schooling livery but she wasn't happy and we had to bring her home.

DD is now at a stage where she wants to jumps 90/1m SJ and XC and luckily last summer our friend lent us their horse for specific outings which is a xc machine and was fantastic.

DS12 is v small so happy on his 13.1 which jumps 80/90.

DD gets understandably frustrated with the frequent stoppages when SJ and XC. She would like to do eventing. 16hh+ eventers are super expensive. So I was wondering how much of a gamble an ex racer would be or whether we'd be biting off more than we can chew? The idea being DD trains it up and gradually ds could also ride it. The kids also enjoy hunting.

I spoke to a friend of ours who is retired national hunt jockey and he didn't think this was too crazy and idea. He recommended ex national hunt so we'd know it would leave the ground.

Anyone been down this route? Many thanks

Well thoroughbreds are certainly very trainable and one far easier to negotiate with than a warm blood but you’ve really got to know what you’re doing as it would easy to inadvertently teach them the wrong thing. It’s harder than breaking from doing nothing as they have already learned a way of going so you have to remodel that. Does dd have the knowledge? Alternatively ex racers that have already undergone retraining are still significantly cheaper and could be a very good option if you have the knowledge and do your homework re vetting etc. I’m team tb all the way though so may be biased

Well TBs are fabulous horses especially for eventing but it would be a big risk. Do you and she have experience of riding and bringing on young horses? As essentially you're starting from scratch but unlike with a purpose bred sports horse you also have to work against or undo a lot of what they were taught in racing training, so in many ways starting from a backwards position. If anything I'd recommend going with a flat bred, a NH horse will have schooled in training and on the track if they made it that far, but they are taught to jump in a totally different style, to approach at a gallop and jump long, low and flat (particularly hurdlers but chasers too). It can be hard to get them to learn to accept a half halt and make a bascule shape for show-jumping. A lot of ex racers find the experience of going out to competitions very mind blowing too, as the whole thing of loading onto the lorry and turning up at a strange venue reminds them of going racing so all they want to do is gallop around as a pack, trotting nicely and calmly around a dressage ring or SJ course is fairly alien to them.

I think realistically even if you buy a TB that's had a lot of the early restarting work done (and you'd be surprised at how much they cost these days, rightly so if someone has put a lot of work into them) you'd be looking at least summer 2027 for her to be eventing at 90-100 I'd say, and that's if everything goes right. They will probably need a whole year just gently restarting and low key outings and so on to build a partnership, but it's quite a long time for a teenager to wait, they only have so many years in junior classes and PC teams. Bear in mind a lot of TBs are not 100% reliably sound either, obviously if they've been in training a few years there will be wear and tear on joints and muscles from that and I've known plenty of people have heartbreak with irreparable structural issues with their TBs (same goes for warmbloods too of course, there's no guarantee with any horse).

Overall I really think unless you're very experienced with TBs it's not a great choice as a first eventer. You'll probably end up spending as much money on professional help and so on as you would if you just bought her something ready made. Possibly if you could find her an experienced older ex-racer that has already been in an evening or PC type home for a number of years, maybe with some quirks or management needs that are overcomeable that would be a good bet? Less so these days but TBs probably still do have a bit of a stigma for being difficult, high maintenance horses so probably takes a little bit off the price tag?

My daughter had a fabulous TB in as a project a couple of years ago. He was a failed point to pointer (raced once, came dead last). She restarted him in April and by October he’d started BE and placed at his first 90. She sold him for five times what she’d paid for him and he’s now living his best life with a young girl who adores him. But .. my daughter could do that because she rides for a living, was based on a pro eventing yard so had the facilities and back up to succeed. It also helped that the horse was French-bred and quite a bit chunkier than many TBs, he’s a big gleaming chestnut that many people mistook for a warmblood and he has the sweetest temperament, genuinely wanting to do the right thing. My daughter didn’t keep him as he was really a grassroots horse and that’s not what she wants to do - but if he hadn’t been a TB she’d have been able to ask for at least double when she sold him.

She now has another TB who’s also big and beautiful and actually much more talented as far as jumping is concerned. But he’s also much more of a ‘typical’ TB - he is much more of a stress head, needed ulcer treatment (£££), needs a companion to travel and generally takes a lot more careful management. She wouldn’t be able to sell him to the same kind of home as it wouldn’t be safe. So far it looks like he’s got enough talent to go up the levels so he’s no longer a project but whether or not he can stay sound physically and mentally to be able to cope with eventing is anyone’s guess.

In your case I’d try to find a TB who’s already been properly retrained for an amateur rider - but expect to pay much more than for one just off the track. You’d still be getting a lot more horse for your money because of the TB stigma but you definitely don’t want your daughter to go through the process herself

No reason why not; just be careful to choose one that has already undergone some restarting with a professional as it’s a lot to start completely from scratch unless you have a very confident daughter, great facilities and money to plough into pro help along the way.

Agree with poster above that a flat horse might be easier to retrain for jumping although they are started earlier so can have more risk of arthritis and so on in later life. I know many ex racehorses who have made lovely amateur horses as long as you bring them along in a sensible way. Teens can be prone to wanting to race around with friends on ponies and so on which is where things can go wrong very quickly so it depends on her maturity too.

Be mindful of Kissing Spine and early arthritis in terms of vetting anything.

My concern would be that your DD isn’t a good enough rider. She’s had her horse for two years and it’s is still unpredictable at SJ and XC, enough to not be able to jump 1m despite being a 16hh WB.

Yes, TB can make good eventers, especially for pre-novice/novice but they need someone who knows what they are doing. Your DD will need the lessons along with the horse. I think you might find that it pays off financially to get a horse that knows what it’s is doing.

Has your daughter ridden any TB/ex-racers?

I like them very much and have owned ex-racehorses, but everything (spooks, spins, rears, stops, teleporting, etc.) happens so much faster than on any other breed that I have ridden.

There is no point in even thinking about this unless your daughter actually likes riding TBs (and that is even before considering all the good points made above).

Yep, I did it as a young teenager. Horse was fine when I tried it. Bought it and it was fucking insane and tried to kill me multiple times over the decade I ended up keeping it for. Absolutely bit off more than I could chew, destroyed my confidence, I quit riding in the end.

I spent 40 years of my life riding and eventing exracers.
I had no choice ( well no horse persons choice) due to finance, and I had some amazing horses during that time, one went to OI, and the speed and fun of riding one xc is something else.
However I was ( at least to start with) young, fit, experienced and could sit the bucks, twists and spins, and didn’t mind them.
That wasn’t my main reason for moving away from my love of the TB though ( I still I have one unridden at home) but the fact that so many of them are knackered before they leave the track, if not physically then mentally.
The unridden one mentioned above is the last of those. I paid a fair bit for him as he had been reschooled ( allegedly) he is knackered in every part of his body, as we fixed each bit, it became apparent there was another damaged part ( SI, hocks, spine, feet etc etc, he was following hot on the heels of another couple of exracers that were similarly fucked)
This is not uncommon.

they are all I’ve had since I was in my teens (and I’m older than god) apart from one of my current horses who was an unseen impulse buy from Ireland…

First and foremost I think you need to be mega realistic that there is no guarantee that something that is useless at the job it was bred at vast expense to do. (Ie race) is going to be any good at a second career

If you are going straight from the track a huge amount of expertise and support will be needed.
From bitter experience ulcers, kissing spine, crap teeth, crap feet (due to bad shoeing and diet rather than anything genetic) and other physical issues are rife by the nature of their former careers and id want to go with someone with a really good eye for lameness.

Where they were trained can have a massive bearing too, small NH yards probably would be the best to pick them out from, they’ve likely hacked alone to the gallops, not been in as intensive a routine etc, horses from the big Newmarket yards will have seen every sort of traffic going but probably never done ANYTHING without another horse. Ones from training centres may have never seen any traffic and never done anything without another horse.

Even the quiet “slow” ones will still be capable of moving quicker than virtually any other horse so worth considering if things are going wrong they can go wrong very quickly!

They are wonderful wonderful horses with a work ethic to die for but I think you do need to be realistic as to why every other advert has “no TB” on it!

Are you looking to compete specifically as RoR or do you mean looking at an ex-racer to ride in your current events? I'd give different advice depending on what you mean.

For alot of people (including me) RoR affiliated events, classes etc opened up a lot of things I had never thought of trying eg county showing classes & dressage to music (RoR ran national finals) & I found the people on the RoR circuit were a much more fun, friendly & sociable group than other showing circuits.

If you are happy to be flexible with the events you compete at & willing to adapt to suit the horse you have then RoR is an excellent choice. If you want an ex-racer to be an eventer at your current level & non-RoR classes then it can be very hit & miss. There will be a few that excel but many more that will have health & other issues & can work out very expensive in terms of vet care but be unable to compete at the level you want.

@Lastqueenofscotland2 you’re so right. I used to work on one small NH yard and the horses were intermittently used to pop up the hill and round up escaped sheep or go and check lambs so people off on different directions. We could go out in a string of 3, one would go come part way then continue for a road hack , one would go up the hill once with you then go home and the last one could finish the piece of work on their own and never bat a eye. Although rural it was also a working farm so they’d seen all sorts of traffic and animals coming and going etc. they also had daily turn out, sometimes alone sometimes in a herd so adaptable to most scenarios. Very different from the regimented life living in a stable on bigger yards and all things to take in to account when looking