How much progress is reasonable to expect?

[Changingnameagain]

My DD started riding lessons weekly in term time last December (with usually 1 or 2 Pony mornings in holidays- these are 4 hours roughly and include around 30 mins individual lesson or an hour group session). She was 6 when she started and is now 7.
We arent a horsey family at all- we began the lessons because we'd been told by an NHS pediatrician that equine therapy was one of the only therapies with a decent body of evidence as being helpful for individuals with autism. She is still being assessed for autism and has got an ADHD diagnosis. Cognitively she is able. Focus wise she struggles though.

I'm struggling to know how much progress we could reasonably expect from the input she's had so far. She is still lead on rein up and down the lane to the school for the lesson. It is a private single track that leads to stable so isnt busy and only used by stable users.
She works independently in the lesson with no lead rein on- she has been introduced to holding crop. She can make the pony walk on and stop. She can turn the pony left and right. She can trot on the pony but the two ponies she is usually riding (the oldest, stoutest ones at the stables bless them) need the teacher to get them into trot because they won't do it at my DD'S say so.
The sessions are really for her wellbeing- they help her be mindful, develop empathy for others, get outside in nature etc - we arent expecting her to ever ride competitively but equally I'm wondering if she should be able to ride a bit more competently and independently by now? Interested in the views of others more knowledgeable than I.

Hello 👋 before I say anything else the most important thing is is she continuing to enjoy herself and benefit from her time with the ponies? If the answer is yes then I'd say 'progress' is almost immaterial, as you say there's no particular aim here other than that.

That being said, I would say probably her progress is slightly slower than average for a child of her age riding weekly for nearly a year, although there is a lot of variation between children even of the same age, and a lot of factors affect how quickly they progress including physical strength and fitness, balance, motivation, confidence etc. I would have expected your DD's special needs probably would mean she would always progress a little slower than average learning a new sport in any event so it certainly doesn't sound like she's doing badly at all.

In terms of stages of progression, sounds like she has the basics of the aids sorted albeit perhaps not 100% effectively, and has her rising trot. That's good, some children never even get that far! The next things to work on are more complicated steering manoeuvers than simple turns across the school or changes of direction, e.g. serpentines, figures of eight, shallow loops to work on her control of the pony and ability to remember and string together several smaller movements in a row without step by step instructions from the instructor, I.e. they should be able to say '3 loop serpentine starting from A' when she's at any point in the school and DD should be able to ride to A, execute the movement, then finish and ride away without further instruction. She should be working towards this in both walk and trot (although on a lazy pony it's hard work keeping the trot going through a series of movements and very common to get drops back to walk).

She should also start working on sitting trot, work without stirrups and flexibility games like touching toes, touching her hat, windmill arms, 'around the world' and 'scissors' to develop her balance, depth and independence of seat and flexibility. A confident well-balanced sitting trot, ideally without stirrups is a precursor to canter and more advanced work like poles and light seat (prep for jumping).

She definitely also needs to work on those leg aids and assertiveness to get the pony to trot without the instructor doing it for her, and/or if those ponies are so used to on the ground assistance, to build her and her teachers confidence to let her ride a slightly more responsive/ sensitive pony which may again need to be built up to. It's also very nice that she's learning about pony care and knowledge as well, and I would expect her instructor to build in little breaks to the more physically challenging bits of her lessons to recap points of the horses, naming / pointing to different bits of equipment, horse colours, use of grooming kit etc so she's also using her brain.

I really wouldn't worry about her being on the lead rein on the lane, doesn't matter how quiet and private it is, I'd grab a hold of any small child riding their pony down a open lane, you never know if the pony might spot some kind of tasty snack in a passing bush and stick their head down or march into it, or spot a scary item up ahead and do a little spook, way too easy for the child to get unseated if there isn't someone right beside them (and they probably aren't paying the most attention either) and it would be silly if she had a little fall and lost her confidence from something like that...

One thing that it might be worth asking your instructor about, if they don't do this already, is whether she can have a couple of lunge line sessions. This is where the instructor attaches a long lead rein to the pony's bit, stands in the middle of the school, and the pony walks/trots in a circle around them. Effectively the instructor is fully in control of the direction and pace of travel freeing up the rider to focus only on themselves and their positioning. I find this so useful for beginners who have got the basics down but need to develop a more balanced and secure seat in trot (and later on, canter), and or work on the effectiveness of their aids.

At this stage of learning, riders can be in a bit of a catch 22, being beginners of course they don't yet have good balance or totally correct and refined leg aids, in order to develop the correct musculature and 'feel' they need lots of practice particularly in trot, but because they are riding very tolerant and desensitised horses you tend to need to give quite crude and strong aids to get going at all, and at the first sign of unbalance, lack of clarity of intent or difficulty from the rider the horse will grind to a halt and not go anywhere at all. Which is not a bad thing! It can be frustrating to ride these types of horses but really the last thing you want for a beginners' horse is one who speeds up or panics and runs away from trouble (very natural horse instinct due to them being prey animals so it takes careful training and conditioning to teach them to do the opposite, hence I get quite cross when people complain about it!). But with the lunge rein the instructor does all the work of telling the horse when to go and stop, so the rider can have a good long steady trot without having to kick, and they can work purely on their balance and seat, which is the foundation of effective aids and communication... Definitely worth asking the instructor about this if they don't already do it, maybe not something for every lesson as children can lack the sustained concentration for nothing but lunge work, and you need to mix it up and keep it fun which usually means doing other things too but it can be a really great way to get over a hump, e.g. if she's struggling with sitting trot or the trot transition...

What do you want from "progress"? She's progressing at her pace. And that is the safest way to do it. She's only 6, and she only rides for a bit once a week. She's learning in an appropriate way.

The best way to learn to ride is with the sort of stubborn school pony you describe, that you have to learn to keep actively pushing on (ie going from walk to trot). It will give your DD a secure seat and she'll know how to get a pony to do what it doesn't want to do.

I learnt a bit later (age 12 or so) and we had about 8 ponies at one point, but they were all quite "toey" - instead of learning how to push a horse on, I was mostly focussed on holding my main pony in!

Much safer for her to be learning the way she is.

Thank you both of you for your responses- so, so helpful for a total know nothing, non riding parent like me to have this detail and insight!
It's funny you mention 'around the world' @maxelly but she actually did some of this in a 1 hour group session I booked her into today (it was called a beginners games session) only 3 riders and 1 of them was so impressive and clearly very talented and experienced too despite being similar age to DD (who is now 7.5yo). It was watching this other little one that had me wondering about DD's progress tbh - and I know that is a very slippery slope to go down (comparing to other children totally unknown to you) and as you've both said, progress at her pace is the best thing so she can get a really secure grounding. Ultimately she loves being on the horse and loves being at the stables and being around all the horses and that is all that matters. ☺️
I will ask the teacher about the lunge line. Weirdly she had lunge line lessons for her first few lessons but then after that we switched teacher due to session time availability and the one we have now has never used lunge line only lunge whip to try and get the pony to maintain trot for more than 4 consecutive rises! Again, in her very first lesson the teacher had her try a rising trot (which I did feel felt very advanced for a child who had never been on a horse beyond a few lead rein donkey ride style experiences) so I think that she's still working on this and not progressed beyond it has perhaps skewed my perception. She has obviously got better at it since lesson 1 which was as you'd expect it to be- a hot mess 😅
Thanks so much again for your input.

We are a horsey family but our youngest started at riding school when she was about 4.5 having never been on a horse and had a 30 minute private lesson every week and joined in on a group lesson every few weeks and she was doing walk , trot , canter independently 6 months in and starting to jump . Personally I’d be wanting to see more progress than you have . Do you observe all the lessons and see improvement or is the instructor literally doing the same things week after week and not introducing anything new ? Are there any other suitable ponies at the stables that are a bit more forward going that she can advance onto ?

@tinyspiny so I observed all of her lessons from December until April and then had to start bringing my 3 yo with me due to change in childcare provisions. He was often reluctant to go and watch lesson or would be being loud and silly next to the school and was distracting my DD, so my observations have been a lot more sporadic. I know they've done some stuff with poles on the floor and turning around cones in figure of 8 but I've seen no attempts at cantering. The ponies she has barely get into trot so cant see her working on canter on them. I will speak to teacher next week and ask if she can perhaps have a slightly more energetic pony moving forward. At the pony morning she did this week they put her on a new pony and according to DD it was very fast and the staff told her she was nearly into canter on it. She seemed really chuffed initially about this but then before bed she told me she didn't want that pony again as it had been too fast and was scary... I think due to her needs, if the staff hadn't made it clear that this pony would be more energetic than her usual then she would have been shocked by it and frightened. I'm not sure if she would go back on that faster pony again as a result. But I'm sure they may have another option she could try. Thanks for your comment.

I will speak to teacher next week and ask if she can perhaps have a slightly more energetic pony moving forward. At the pony morning she did this week they put her on a new pony and according to DD it was very fast and the staff told her she was nearly into canter on it. She seemed really chuffed initially about this but then before bed she told me she didn't want that pony again as it had been too fast and was scary...

Please listen to your DD. So what if a 5 year old from a horsey family is cantering? Your DD has developmental delays. This is going to take longer!

How would your DD react to falling off? Think about that.

But really, what I keep wondering is: what is your point about progress? Do you think your DD is being blocked from becoming an Olympic eventer? What is your DD losing by taking it slowly? There are no prizes here.

You're demonstrating the truth of the adage "Comparison is the thief of joy." Your DD enjoys (takes joy) in riding in the way she's riding. She's learning how to urge on a stubborn school horse. That is a really important skill - more important than you know if you're not experienced in riding. If she wants to go faster, she'll have to learn how to get her pony to trot! That is a very useful skill - learning how to push on a horse - it requires confidence and determination, and a good seat, that co-ordinates with her use of her legs and voice as aids.

Maybe it might be useful for you to read some basic "My First Pony" How-To books, so you'll see what the general wisdom about this is?

I agree to a point @ParmaVioletTea but riding is an expensive hobby and the OP needs to be sure that the instructor is the correct one for her child , from what she said in her opening post her daughter doesn’t have physical disabilities so there is no reason why she shouldn’t be progressing . Yes the child may be happy to just sit on a pony for 30 minutes but it really isn’t value for money if she is not learning and progressing . Also yes we are a horsey family but my daughter had no access to riding other than at riding school as at that time we only owned a couple of my retired horses and our sons pony who was definitely not suitable for beginners .

With all due respect, I think you're being a little harsh on OP. She clearly says in her first post that she doesn't in any way expect her DD to become a competitive rider and that the main thing is enjoyment and therapeutic benefits. But don't we all want to 'progress' as riders, isn't that part of the reason at least to take lessons? I certainly know that even at the grand age of 65 and with any competitive ambitions a long way in the rear view mirror I still have lessons so that I can improve my skills, refine my seat and become a better rider, ultimately for the benefit of myself and my horse. Why can't OP want the same for her DD? A lot of kids (and adults) are inherently motivated by progression and don't enjoy just doing the same thing over and over without feeling they're learning or improving, that's why exams and badges and certificates are a thing in lots of kids activities so I don't think it's a strange question to ask or implies OP is really pushy or anything.

If I was paying for lessons for my child in say, piano, in the full knowledge it was vanishingly unlikely they'd ever be a concert pianist, but knowing little about music myself, if a year after starting lessons they were still bashing out chopsticks every time, I might start to wonder whether/when I might expect 'progression' - not because there's anything wrong with chopsticks per se or because I think the teacher is doing a bad job, but because I know there's other wonderful music my child might enjoy and benefit from playing and want to know if it's worth being a tiny bit more ambitious or trying something slightly different? Obviously it's not a perfect analogy, with piano it's of course a possibility if all your child wants or is able to do is play chopsticks you can buy a piano of your own and play chopsticks over and over without needing any more lessons, with no adverse consequences (other than to your ears!) whereas of course that's not really sensible or safe with ponies so you are more dependent on lessons/teachers even if you've maxed out abilities at a very low level. But you get my point, I don't think with other hobbies or sports a parent asking a polite questions about their child's ability in comparison to others or what next steps to progress are would get told they need to buy a 'my first ballet' book or that they shouldn't even ask if their child might be ready to try a more difficult movement or skill? And from what OP has said there is no reason her DD couldn't do a little bit more than what she's doing now, but maybe she needs to find the right way to approach it with the teacher, as, like many of us, probably her DD's actual abilities are higher than her own confidence in them so it needs to be approached in the right way and not just mindless pushing that she must do XYZ in a fixed timeframe. And horsey people can come across a little prickly or lack people skills themselves so it can be hard to have this kind of conversation as a non horsey parent, I wouldn't want anyone reading this to be put off asking the question or for advice here, this is what this board is for!

I bet she'd enjoy being able to canter OP and I think that would unlock a lot of other fun activities for her if she can get confident with it, a lot of the time the 'bar' for being able to join slightly higher level groups, mounted games, hacking out and such is be confident in walk, trot and canter, so perhaps talking to your instructor about prep to canter (don't say I want her to canter now, obviously it would be when the instructor thinks she is ready) which would include working in her private lessons on her sitting trot and trying a slightly more responsive pony (with the right pep talk!) would be a great idea!

@maxelly has explained things a lot better than me 🤣

Ha, but you said it more concisely 😂

I think I’m just a bit of a mean mum as actually my daughter had 2 falls and then decided that she was only going to walk on her lessons and I said if she was only doing that then I’d stick her brothers pony on a lead rein for her as I wasn’t paying £30+ for her to walk in circles on someone else’s pony .

Thank you all of you for your input- I do really appreciate you taking the time. I am also totally not averse to reading My first pony how to books either 😅 I am so painfully aware of my lack of knowledge beyond what I hear the teacher tell my daughter. I do think Ive picked up some knowledge and understanding from the lessons but obviously nothing compared to those with years and years of direct riding experience themselves.
And yes @maxelly your piano analogy is absolutely how I feel (and I did have lessons for years and years as a kid and definitely progressed beyond chopsticks!). I would like her to be able to do some group sessions and hacking as I know she will enjoy the social element and also enjoy having a change of scene. But- as you've said- the stables won't let us book her on these things (quite rightly) because she hasn't progressed to that ability level yet.

I do also take your point @ParmaVioletTea that there is zero point pushing DD to something that she won't enjoy or could lead to injury or knock her confidence to point she may refuse to ride again. I absolutely wouldn't want that!

I think it really depends on how capable she is. Ordinarily I would say she is well behind where you would expect from a year of lessons but if she has developmental delays in play, she is doing phenomenally well to be off a lead line already.

I'd probably aim for her to finish out the year being able to ask for a trot herself and remain in a steady rising trot for 3 laps with reasonable control of her steering. But do bear in mind that I don't know what her difficulties are and it's more important to keep her enjoying it, even if it means slower progress.

Crops are for using so if I were her teacher, which I'm not, I'd tell her to ask the pony once with her legs, big clear signal. Move legs away and gently kick. If no reaction, ask again a bit harder and flick the crop lightly against his side, behind her leg to back up the aid.

Most school ponies will wait for the crop as they're used to fidgety kids so aren't sure if they're asking for something or not. Some will also refuse if they think the rider might fall.

Some of ours who take the raw beginners, drop out of trot in the corners because they know that's where they're most likely to lose them out the side door so a pony that is more whoa than go isn't a bad thing. They'll teach her to be a stronger rider in the end and they'll make her work for it.

They won't get her cantering until she can trot independently, her riding isn't strong enough. If she can't get them into a trot, she won't be able to hold them in canter which will result in a kind of 'tranter.' Very bouncy, jarring and hard to sit to.

Can she help out around the yard and do some horsemanship sessions? I have a small gaggle of children trailing me most days that I'm teaching to do things like bring in, groom, clean stalls, tack and untack, make and hand out their feeds etc. It gives them more confidence and a relationship with the horses that translates to their riding.

I'm an experienced riding for the disabled coach and it certainly is one of the best therapies ever! It sounds like your child is making progress but it won't be linear. Sometimes they take ages to get something and other times it just clicks, same with any other learner. The way the coach communicates will really help or hinder the learning. Being around ponies on the ground will help massively to build rapport and confidence, as well as understanding how horses act. There's no shame being on the lead rope and actually riders can benefit from going back on it for parts of a lesson, especially if they are trying a new, slightly more responsive pony. It can be really good for progress as it's hard work to be kicking a pony and they really shouldn't be taught that. Being on the lead rope with a fit helper who can run can extend the time they are able to trot for which will build fitness and feel, whilst the helper ( as long as they are experienced) can maintain a steady trot that isn't too fast. Confidence is hard to win and easy to lose, just one instance of a pony rushing can put them off.
It absolutely would be possible for her to compete in the future if she wanted to, you can join an rda group or do online dressage anywhere competitions, or the school might do in house ones to start with. The rda tests are designed as a real introduction to dressage and essentially have a 20m ( big one, half the school) circle, a change of rein across the centre and a short trot on the long side. A three loop serpentine is a pretty abstract figure and needs to be taught well to any new rider with plenty of support to start with. Using a whiteboard can help people visualise figures in the school better. Also, walking it on foot and practicing the aids as the bend changes can help. ( They need a basic understanding of inside/ outside bend to ride this effectively which is why it's not a beginner figure, or else all you do is teach the horse bad habits) These are absolutely concepts that can be taught though, I have taught lateral ( fancier going sideways!) movements to riders with a range of disabilities or additional needs.
Hacking out is a very different cup of tea and requires saintly ponies. Hopefully they would have helpers on the ground when first going out. Many children ride for a few years in a school but couldn't safely ride out ( I used to also work in a trekking centre) and cantering across an open hill in a group is very different to ponies just cantering round to the back essentially under the control of the instructor in the middle. It is amazing though.
There are lots of mounted games you can do I walk and trot which really develop confidence and coordination whilst being lots of fun. Hope she continues to love her riding.

Thank you @Balloonhearts and @horseymum your insights are really appreciated. Her disability does mean she has a spikey learning profile- she is way ahead in reading and writing at school for instance but equally takes 3 times longer to complete a basic piece of work compared to peers due to ADHD inattention. She did a mounted games session this week as it was half term and she did enjoy it, so I will book her into more sessions like this moving forward
She was back on a very old plod school pony for the games session too which I know she felt happier about than the faster pony they popped her on on the pony morming she did at the start of the week. I will try and pluck up courage to speak to teacher with some of the suggestions you have all made
I really like her teacher and am so conscious of not upsetting her or disrespecting her.

Games are good. The ponies will be more responsive if they're engaged with a task to do. My loan horse hates trotting circles but put out a grid of poles to trot over, he's well into it. Plus when you have something to concentrate on, you tend to relax more and just ride.

Is your DD happy and enjoying her time?

I am autistic (and also have ADHD) and spent my childhood with horses and ponies. They have an incredibly calming and relaxing effect on me, and the benefits are massive. It could be that your daughter has so much to release that it’s coming out when she is around horses and that doesn’t leave her with much energy to actually be able to learn at a normal pace as well. However, despite it being slow progress with what you can readily see in terms of riding ability, the advantages mentally are massive but slipping under the radar.

As an adult I don’t have to ride to get those benefits, just grooming a horse and hearing them munch on hay has a similar peaceful effect.

So whilst your daughter is advancing very slowly, that might be because you are just focusing on the riding and not everything else going on.

Thank you @FuzzyWolf for sharing this. It is so helpful to hear other perspectives- especially from someone who is also ND as DD is- as to what other benefits there are that run deeper than what my untrained eye can perceive from observing her lessons. She is always very happy after any lesson or half day session she has and in the half day sessions they do a lot of yard work and mucking out and grooming. Would that be considered.ground work? I don't think she's tacked a horse up yet. I know she has been able to lead another rider on a pony around a small school as part of a half day session and she really liked doing that.

I would consider ground work to be anything you are doing with or around the horses that doesn’t involve riding them.

Given she is so happy afterwards, I suspect she is getting lots more benefits that you can readily see when watching her.

Equine therapy is unbeatable! It’s definitely in a league of its own for those who benefit from it.

This question is like asking how long is a piece of string.

There is a lot of variation between riding schools and the approach they take. Some don't really believe that children below 7/8 should be doing anything remotely demanding. They will effectively babysit your child on a moving sofa.

Some children are naturally more cautious and dislike the feeling of trying to balance. They need the moving sofa approach.

Many schools find it very difficult to have well schooled tiny ponies because tiny adults are hard to find. And tiny ponies are often naughty. It's much easier for them to put a small child on something bigger, explaining away the fact that the child's legs don't reach past the saddle pad by promoting that pony as a saint. IME that pony is probably not so much saintly as dead to the leg, bored stiff and will only go up a gear after a lot of unsettling hauling at its mouth by a leader or trailing a whip behind it. Or having an older rider with a crop and strong legs on top. I don't see any children progressing well in that environment.

I think you need to work out if your child is about the equine therapy or the riding. It can be both. But if it is about the equine therapy and she is happy and the children are engaged with well, I wouldn't care about her progress just now. If she is a little frustrated and losing interest, you might need to think again.

IME, children learn exponentially faster in private lessons. They're often given a more responsive horse to ride and they do a lot more work during the lesson. However, if your child is cautious and happy in their comfort zone, I'd let them stay there and make it clear to the instructor that this is what you want. With that said, my child's additional needs were greatly helped by her advancing ability to ride around the age of 7. Following a sequence of instructions, noticing the letter names around the school, wobbling and practicing left and right were all helpful skills. I don't know the details on the wobble board research but I do know that my child's academic progress leapt forward when she was riding several times a week. Her right and left was noticeably better. She was more alert to the world.

There are schools out there with very patient bigger ponies who tend to be responsive to the instructor's voice commands which allows the child in a private lesson to feel they're doing well and actually progress rather than kicking fruitlessly. That's ideal.

We went a little overboard and bought a Dartmoor show pony who had the reputation of being a saint and he was. The are plenty of exceptions but as ponies go, Dartmoors are the golden retrievers of the equine world - placid, easy to train and fairly food orientated. We also bought a larger pony who was a witch in the stable but adored having a tiny person on her back. By that point we were spending huge amounts of money having both ponies on livery and being schooled as well as the private lessons on them - but my daughter was so happy, engaged and the riding time distracted her from the huge amounts of extra learning time she was putting in at home. She was obsessed and her ponies were her world. I wouldn't do that differently.

In terms of progress, she was flying around after six months, competent and relaxed in canter on her Dartmoor. Or as competent as a child can be when they are highly amused by the flapping of their pony's mane and don't care what direction they're going in. The bigger pony was a jumping schoolmistress and loved flatwork - figures of eight, changing diagonals, obstacle courses all at a very, very swift trot. No other pony could keep up with them.

She then had a fall that was worse than the others had been and tensed up. She continued to love schooling and hacking but rarely cantered. She didn't ride as often. That was fine until she was 13. By that time both ponies had been outgrown. The pony obsession returned with a vengeance and she was back to two private lessons a week. She then decided that she wanted to do all the things, worked very hard and was galloping happily up mountains and along beaches with her riding school within five months of returning to the sport. She is clever but naturally nervous and her bond with the pony means a great deal to her.

I hope this helps you to see that it's all about what is right for the child at that time. There is no one size fits all progress. You will feel if your child's needs are being met. With that said, my daughter did have a very strong bond with one instructor who understood her perfectly and insisted she try new things to find out she could do them. In the context of a private lesson with a motivated, sympathetic instructor, that was fine with me.

I’m surprised to hear people think a 7 year old with weekly group lessons for a year should be competent off the lead rein. We have our own pony and my 2 DC who both ride are Pony Club members. Most of the dc your daughters age have had their own ponies since before they could walk and the opportunity to ride every day and plenty are still on the lead rein at 7. There are various reasons for this, often confidence and of course private ponies are generally a bit livelier and have their own mind compared to riding school ones but lots of dc just don’t have the coordination necessary for effective riding before about 8. A bit like swimming in a way. You get some who are amazing at 5 and can swim lengths or fly round show jumping courses but these are often the exception rather than the rule. It’s one of those things that often just clicks one day and they are off but the age that happens varies massively. Doing holiday camps where they are in every day will go a long way towards helping that happen so I’d keep an eye out for those.

Does she ride the same pony every week @Changingnameagain?

Pony therapy can also be something like

To add to my post above, that might be what the paediatrician meant about pony therapy. Not necessarily riding lessons. I have done some equine assisted therapy myself as an adult, and with a good facilitator (human) working with the horses, it's extremely powerful and effective