Bit advice for child and pony

[Felttippenandpaper]

I know this is a huge topic so just looking for some thoughts and shared experiences, as I've just started thinking about this.

DD (9) is a very gentle, quiet rider - good seat, soft hands. Her weakest area is effectiveness! We loan a 12.2 Welsh pony (DP), in his twenties. We solely hack together, no schooling, competing or jumping. We've had DP for 2 years. He has always been heavy in the hands, and inclined to lean. DD does a good job of keeping him active but I feel his eggbutt jointed snaffle may not be optimal for helping her.

There is no issue with brakes, but steering and control could be more refined! He just seems a bit dead in the mouth at times. For example, today he decided he wanted to walk on the (holey) verge, not the road. It then becomes an undignified battle for DD to get him off. He's an old boy, schooling is not an option. DD has weekly lessons and is a nice little rider, but certainly not good enough for any elaborate biting.

What are people's thoughts about other types of bit? Thanks for any help.

I don't think your issue is the bit. He's not strong, but as he's older and you don't school he might be lacking in muscle and find it harder to carry himself. Does he leg yield? Can your daughter move his body with her legs? You could try a full cheek snaffle but I wouldn't go for anything harsher or not complicated.

What do you mean by schooling is not an option? You mean she doesn't ride him in the school (who does she have lessons on)? Or that he's an old boy and personality unlikely to change at his age? As the owner of an highly opininated stubborn older native pony I hear you on the latter but in that case I'm afraid to say changing his bit probably won't change things much either, or potentially can even make things worse, my boy does the same, if you're trying to make him go in a direction or at a speed he disagrees with he'll put his head down and lean on the hand while towing you along through the shoulders - if you then increase the pressure and pull on his mouth he either pulls back harder or if you continue to escalate he turns nappy/spinny/runs backwards which is absolutely not what you want out on the roads! I have him in a happy mouth thin snaffle with a roller mouthpiece and have had good success with similar types using various soft plastic mouthpieces, I know it's counter intuitive to put a 'softer' bit into a strong horse but with a horse already inclined to lean you really don't want to give them something to clamp onto or that uses poll pressure to pull the head in to the chest.

I know you know this already but the solution really is to improve her riding, the way to ride these types of pony is utilising your seat and body weight effectively (you don't have to be heavy to do this) and stay off your hands as far as possible. And that means lots and lots of practice and schooling I'm afraid, if not on her own pony then in her lessons, and even if you don't ride your own in the school she can still be practicing on hacks, transitions within the pace and up and down, bend him left then right, leg yield back and forth and play with shoulders in and out, quarters in and out, with these types getting them listening, tuned in to the seat and paying attention to the rider is key.

If you do want to play with his bit I'd get an expert to come out with lots of different mouthpieces and see what he seems to like, as I say even the softest - handed child can easily sour a pony if you overbit them and they don't have the timing or knowledge or confidence to use the bit properly. I'd also pop a neck strap on at all times particularly if you're going to change bit, if she's feeling wobbly hook two fingers under the strap and that will stabilize her hands and get her to sit deep and use her body and legs to turn rather than hands....

Thanks for replying. I agree, changing the bit is not a magical/quick fix but we don't have an issue as such. I just watched them today and felt that a different bit may be better for them both. He seems able to entirely ignore the eggbutt snaffle at times!

He won't have had any schooling for at least 15 years. He lives out in a herd, and has been gently but regularly hacked for most of his life. I can't imagine him leg yielding to be honest, though I'm sure he was once quite well schooled. I wondered about a full cheek snaffle - that would help the steering I guess?

You could try a different noseband instead, a flash or drop may improve him evading the bit and clinging on.

I have two ex driving horses who hang on the bit so I have them in breaking bits and a drop and a grackle. I also have an ex racer who hangs on the bit so use a full cheek snaffle and grackle on him too.

Agree with PPs, teaching her to use her legs more effectively is probably the answer!

I used to ride an older pony that insisted on riding on the verges despite all my efforts to get him on the nice smooth road. We assumed the vibrations from the road were too much for his old joints and he was more comfortable on the grass. He was fine in every other respect just preferred being on the grass where there was an option

As he's older he's probably had loads of beginners hanging onto his reins and bit for dear life so his mouth has hardened to cope with it and your daughters gentle hands won't even register

Thanks for that reply, that's really helpful too.
To answer your question - we don't have access to a school, and I am not sure how well he'd cope anyway! She has her lessons at a riding school.

He doesn't do anything dangerous or even very interesting 😄, he just becomes more 'obstinate' (I'm attempting to describe the behaviour, I'm sure that's not his motivation!) when he decides where he wants to walk for example. Today he decided to turn for home (we'd halted). He didn't go anywhere, just slowly turned to face the other way. She just struggles to get him to listen at these times It's just a general lack of responsiveness. As I say, he's doesn't do anything not dangerous at all.

More answers, sorry! Thank you all, am reading them. Yes he is definitely more comfortable off the road, and we are usually on grass. Occasionally the verges are not safe though so we have to make him.

He's only been ridden by a small adult for most of his life so not used for beginners. I think he is just getting on in years and is a bit unfit and unmotivated (lazy!). He's very relaxed.

Have I got this right you think the pony is being Lazy despite you agreeing that he hangs on the grass verges and is reluctant to walk on the road. The answer to your problem is not changing the bit it’s sorting out your ponies obviously painful feet and or joints.
sort out why they are in pain and the rest should all come together.

Thank you all for the suggestions. I think we'll try a full cheek snaffle and see how that feels. He has a plain cavesson nose and which we'll stick with for now.

so you come on here ask a question and then ignore all sensible responses from people and when you don’t like them, barrel on with what you were going to do anyway? I’m not sure the pony is the problem here.

Why isn’t your daughter having lessons on the pony? Surely the obvious answer is to either take the pony to the riding school for a lesson or ask the instructor for a private lesson at an arena hire?
changing the bit for an older horses and ignoring what sounds most like he is in pain than anything is bordering on cruel.

I've just ordered a running gag (will just use a single rein) and will get her some spurs, hopefully that will sort him out. I'll get her to use a crop too.

Assuming that this pony isn’t in pain / doesn’t have sore feet then this is entirely a rider issue and as a pp said it’s very unfair to mess about with bits rather than sorting out the core issue which is the rider . Why not try walking out with your daughter and helping her to be more effective from the ground rather than hacking together .

He would not enjoy trotting, cantering and jumping in a school. I think he'd find it hard. We enjoys pottering about on gentle hacks with him, and that is what he's used to.

Most of our hacking is off road, we're very lucky. When we do have to use roads and tracks, we allow him on the verges where ever it's safe to do so. On stoney tracks we give him a loose rein to pick his way as he chooses. My daughter doesn't carry a stick.

He is shod all round, has pads on his front feet in addition, as he is sensitive on hard ground. We've done that for a year now. He's really loved and cherished, I just wanted some suggestions for bits! Thanks to those who helped.

Well to be fair if you think the pony is in pain boxing him or trailering him to a riding school isn't going to help much either, if he's only hacked and been in very light work for some years I can understand the reluctance to start stepping that up now he's in his 20s (you can still work on his basic schooling and responsiveness out hacking though). Not saying it's a bad idea to get a vet check up though, if he's starting to nap definitely a good idea to get the vet to check him out and probably I would start him on a joint supplement regardless even if 100% sound...

He really should know a leg yield as a minimum, any ridden pony should, it's the very basic idea of yielding/moving away from leg pressure, if he doesn't know that or needs reminding no wonder she's got no steering - you can work on it from the ground as a first step, doesn't matter if he doesn't do it perfectly straight but he should be willing to step his legs up and move his body sideways in response to pressure in either direction, if he really won't and particularly if he's more reluctant one way than the other I'd definitely suspect something is niggling him...

He sounds like he needs schooling tbh. A harsher bit is not the answer. Like with horses who are dead to the leg, you don't just boot them harder. You school them to respond to lighter aids. If you can't school him, I'd get someone else to ride him who can.

A child without the control to leg yield absolutely does not need spurs!!

Or a whip!

My god this thread had made me so cross for that poor pony! We wonder why equestrians get a bad name! If I’m doubt kick it with spurs and hit it with a whip! 🤬🤬🤬

I think she might be on a wind up about the spurs, gag and whip, before you all totally lose your shit...

Please tell me you are joking

Jesus, I'm joking 🤣

I hope you were joking about the gag and spurs lol. 😝

Could he just want to walk on the soft verge as he has sensitive feet, even with pads.

Does sound like he needs schooling. To strengthen the muscles required to carry himself properly and to teach his rider what she should be doing and when in order to anticipate his nonsense and he all over it.

Having said that, my pony would go wherever he wanted no matter where you had his head positioned or how much you used your leg 🤣

The old yin’s are like older people, can be arsed with any nonsense but biddable when it’s stuff they don’t mind. He could be a ridden pony for another decade though so he needs to be a good pony!

It’s old fashioned but a kineton nose puts pressure on the nose rather than the mouth and won’t let the bit be pulled right up the lips by a heavy hand. Suited my pony as his mouth was sensitive. A baler twine daisy rein did help too.

Sorry, I didn't want to distress anyone. I'm 100% winding you up. As @maxelly realised. We dote on DP and do our very best for him.

@TalulahJP thanks so much, I'll look into those suggestions. We don't really know how old he is, he could be late 20s. We're very gentle with him - he definitely is unfit, unschooled and has sensitive feet. We won't be able to change those things, we just want to continue to hack once or twice a week. You've been very helpful, thanks

The fact you think it is funny is even more disturbing

Even more disturbing than what? The joke itself? 😵‍💫