DIY Livery costs

[NewYard25]

Very lucky to have exchanged on a property with a yard. It was a full livery yard but the uncertainty over new owners has emptied it. Some interested parties didn’t want any liveries. So there’s only 2 in situ (3 horses).

Total 11 livery stables (keeping 2 for myself), just under 20 acres so loads of well drained grazing.

A decent sized sand and rubber outdoor school.

Its a bit tired looking but stables all dry, electricity, space to hose your horses feet etc in nice tranquil area with peaceful hacking.

Prev owner has never upped the livery - what’s reasonable. Totally DIY, good hay supplier, we will do some maintenance and will upgrade bits and pieces but all in good time.

East Mids area.

TIA

Admittedly I’m in Surrey but I think it would be around £200pm (mine is £250pm).

I charge £50 PW DIY but that includes fully matted indoor stables, automatic water drinkers in stables, individual tack rooms with locks, year round turnout with excellent grazing (or strip grazing can be offered), indoor arena and floodlit outdoor arena.

Thanks both - current owner charges £25p/w but I paid that for less in 2015!

We thought £40 p/w for 12x12 stables. We have 15 acres rested paddocks and everyone else is struggling for grass this year.

@AmFhoghar your yard sounds lovely… one day we hope to be as nice! Thing is we have obviously just made a huge investment whereas prev owner had been there 20 years so it was all profit - whereas we have a huge debt to contend with.

It’s taken me 20 years 🤣

At least £50! But the horse people I know are in London/SE.

I really don’t think I’d bother it is more trouble than it’s worth . If you do want it to “pay its way” just do a few full liveries , at least that way things are done how you want them doing .

We are in Yorkshire and most DIY places are a lot £45/£50 a week and that's for nothing fancy. But it would generally include hay and straw.

east mids here - I was paying £150 pcm for DIY. Did not include bedding and hay. Turnout in Winter was dependant on yard owners estimation of weather conditions, no automatic filling water in stables, tack room per 4/5 stables, limited storage for feed. I’d also be interested in where you are if you decide to do DIY.

We are definitely DIY - my job is better paying than livery would be (and for less effort). We are just filling our empty stables.

Most here that are full DIY are about £150 per week

I’d just take on one or two initially. For every nice livery we’ve had we’ve had four absolute pain in the backsides! We charge £40/wk including hay. Loads of turnout/grass, lovely 14x12 stables, hard standing turnout for bad weather. Individual tack rooms. Fabulous hacking and countryside. No school but one available for use at a neighbour’s.

I agree with @Gingercar. Start small, keep the liveries you have and get a sense of how the yard worked before you arrived. I kept 4 in situ when we moved here and they were swiftly moved on. It took me 6 months to advertise the stables after that experience because the ones that stayed were a nightmare. I took my time and made sure I had my livery agreement watertight, and I mean literally spelling out the yard rules. Don’t be me when I started, l let little things go, and that never ends well. At the end of the day this was our property and needed to be respected. We have 18 stables, 12 x 14. I realised very early on that not everyone had my standards (I don’t do mess). We had people leaving their horses in until 12 noon in winter after being in from 4pm with no bedding or hay. I live in Scotland and during winter most of the horses are in by 4 except the ones who winter out in different fields. I had issues with one particular horse being left alone in a field because the owner never finished work until 5 so wasn’t up the yard until 7, the thing was going crazy and I ended up bringing it in every night. Often when I checked my own horses before bed 2 had been scrimping on hay and their horses were eating their bedding. The dung heap was a mess, the stables were a mess, the arena as were never poo picked, I could write a book! Be very clear of yard rules including children at the yard, it’s not a playground. Start as you mean to go on and the best of luck in your new venture 💐

What @AmFhoghar has described is precisely why I wouldn’t bother , I’d rather have empty stables .

We’re not wet behind the years and have managed (and continue to manage) other businesses before. DH has technically hundreds of employees beneath him - he is no nonsense and has no qualms in managing people. We have ran businesses from home before. Although not livery, and know you can’t please nor won’t get on with everyone, but we’ve just invested a 7 figure sum and livery is the fastest return in the short-term so we don’t have the luxury of turning down that income. Long term we’ll diversify. We have carefully planned this.

We were paying £55 a week for DIY six years ago, albeit in Surrey. Lots of turnout (140 acres), very tired stables but just about holding together, a small sand and fibre arena, jumping field in the summer and brilliant hacking with very little roadwork. Considering the massive rises in the cost of hay/utilities/everything since then I’d expect to be paying quite a bit more now so for your place I’d say at least £50 pw but probably more. The place we were on was fully DIY however there were two freelance grooms who had their horses there (they got discounted livery) and offered assistance like turn out/bring in/rug changes etc. We paid the grooms separately and it meant that we only had to go up one end of the day which was a godsend during school term time. That was a massive draw for us and meant that DIY was feasible - obviously your yard is smaller so two grooms offering services would be a bit much but it’s something that makes your yard more attractive to a lot of people. Good luck!

Do not include hay/straw in your livery price. Either they buy it in themselves, or buy it from you as they use it. If its included then they tend to waste a lot, and prices are very high this year.

Livery offers almost zero return and just because you have employees elsewhere does not mean this will be profitable. Nobody I know runs a profitable livery yard (and that goes from top level SJ riders to 5* eventers). Sorry to say this but it's mega hard work with very little gain . . . and that's why a lot of people are selling up.

We charge £200 a month DIY and source hay for those who want it for an additional £70 per month. We have indoor/outdoor arenas (floodlights outside) and a full set of jumps. How big is 'decent sized'? Is the hacking good around you? Is there lorry/trailer parking?

The comment re employees was nothing to do with profit but to say we’re not strangers to managing personalities, people and business 🙄 I’ve had horses for 30 years, I’m not brand new.

It’s bigger than 20x40 I was intentionally vague as equestrian properties for sale aren’t that common and easily found.

We have nice hacking and plenty of parking (at a small cost).

The arena and nice hacking will definitely be a draw and will encourage people to stay. I didn't mean to insinuate a lack of knowledge, just sharing my own experience along with that of other people I know. With the costs of literally everything equine related rising at the moment, it's a tricky time to launch any sort of equestrian business but I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks @harveythehorse it’s not going to be our main income or anything, just immediate income. But the set up is there. Part of me wants to keep livery just because so many are shutting down and horses are being more and more exclusive, which is a shame for the little girl that loves ponies!

You sound like the perfect yard.

it does sound lovely! Very envious!
we’re on an old yard at £35 pw fully DIY in the northwest with an indoor arena, outdoor grass arenas in summer, year round turnout. We have to buy bedding and hay from the farmers but normal prices! And we have freelance grooms so I only need to go once a day too, it’s £3 to turn out or bring in my two per day (adds up over the month though!)

The other option would be to rent out a block as a sole use element? When I set up a yard for the first time I really didn't realise having worked on yards and been a livery for decades how much hard work goes into keeping things running well, it is like having a second household. For example, today with the rain coming the gutters need clearing, I am at work. Helpers on the yard are hard to get, it is hard to get people with tractors diggers etc that you need for maintenance as they are so busy and it is time consuming contacting and meeting them, getting the cash to them later etc. Your yard sounds lovely but I do echo other people about being careful, people often resent land ownership and it will be hard work. A few years ago someone locally did me a big favour but I didn't see it that way at the time. They asked me to put up their horses, for free, in an emergency, I agreed, they seemed normal reasonable and respectful and were friends. On the day they turned up late making me late for things, with more horses and people than mentioned in a fluster, they didn't have the manners to introduce any of the extra people and I had no idea who they were. Found out when they left they broke one of my tools, didn't tell mention it and I found one part and needed to hunt around for the other metal bit where my horses were, thankfully not causing any injury. Their attitude throughout was so entitled and very undermining - they expected to be given all the access codes to the yard, to share with the people I didn't know. Loads of time wasting messages. Then when I saw them again they acted like I had been horrible to them. It was a real lesson to me in how people take the . My yard owner friend had tried to warn me but I didn't know what she meant. It is nothing like an employer employee relationship. I was so glad when they left thankfully it was a short term arrangement and I have said no to requests ever since. Absolutely never again.

@CountryCob thank you, we have had our own land for sometime, but it’s been private use so we’re familiar with land management. Now we’ve got more than we need and we have longer term users but immediately it makes sense to fill the stables.

I don’t want sole use because I risk them having tenant rights (Landlord and tenant Act 1954) and we want to be able to cut down on numbers for when we repurpose with ease.

Sounds like you are well set up @NewYard25 especially having already managed your own land and that makes sense. You could always get the new tenant to contract out of the 1954 Act, it is a simple statutory declaration now. Sounds like a lovely set up.