If you work and have a horse on full livery, how does that work for you and your family?

[Howisitonlymonday]

Apologies, this is long, but it helps me to write it down as I've been going around in circles for over a year now!

I'm mid-40's, have ridden since I was 5 years old. I had my own horse as a teenager on DIY livery, had a wonderful time mostly hunting and hacking out with friends, lots of freedom, but had to sell when I went to medical school. I rode on and off in my 20's whilst studying hard and working hard as a junior doctor. I have one DS who is almost 16 now and becoming more independent. He rides a little but isn't that interested and is more into other sports.

I got properly back into riding 7 years ago, had regular lessons, then a part-loan, (who was sold once I'd got her fit, which was awful). I bought my own horse in summer 2020 (very immature 4 year old, as not much available at the time) and kept her on a DIY livery yard about 15 minutes drive away. I was working part-time 2 days per week at that time after a period of burnout, and hired a freelance groom to care for her on the days when I was at work (work is an 11-12 hour day, plus commute). I kept her for 3 years, brought her on slowly and carefully and she matured into a lovely horse, but the freelance groom became very unreliable, the winter turnout was limited and hours changed on a daily basis, and I struggled to manage with needing to be at the year two or three times per day alongside work and family needs. This caused a lot of stress at home - DH is not a horse person and resented me always needing to dash out to the yard. He also commented often that it seemed to be causing me more stress than happiness, and didn't like me being out of the house so much during the summer holidays when DS stopped wanting to come with me, which was fair enough but meant that my time at the yard always came with a feeling of guilt, pressure to get done, and feeling as though I wasn't doing right by either DS or my mare.

My mare finished growing a good 2 inches smaller than expected (which was already on the smaller side for me), so sadly wasn't going to be my long-term horse. I sold her to a lovely home, where she continues to thrive and we are still in touch. I tried going back to part-loan, but that horse turned out to have back issues and was retired. At that point I got a great new job, but full time across 4 days (4x10 hours plus commute). I realised that I couldn't manage DIY livery as I need reliable horse care for my working days.

For the past 2 years I have been having lessons/ borrowing friends horses/ occasional trekking, but I really miss having my own and developing that bond. I'm also now bored of lessons on riding school ponies/ being the oldest person in the lesson by at least 2 decades (including the instructors). I haven't found any riding schools near me that cater well for older, more experienced riders. I feel like I'm paying out £44 per hour just to school their ponies for them, and not learning much. I can't really part-loan as people want someone who can see to their horse in the week.

I can afford full livery, but the nearest yards that offer it are 25-30 minutes drive from where I live. I would be able to ride 2-3 days per week (Fri/Sat/Sun). I enjoy hacking, schooling, riding club activities, pleasure rides, a bit of hunter trialling, I enjoy a bit of a project (bringing on a young horse or bringing a horse back into work, one of my loans was an OTTB and that was very rewarding). With no stable jobs to do, I would hope that the time I had at the yard would be focussed on the horse - grooming, training, and exercising.

I'm trying to work out whether full livery really would enable me to just get on with work 4 days per week without needing to worry about the horse? My job is full-on, I need to be able to concentrate and I get home very tired, I cannot ever leave work during the day, it's also an hour commute each way. DS is getting more independent and is out with friends or doing his own thing, but DH would resent it if I was out at the yard all day every weekend (hence full rather than part-livery, so that I would only need to go to the yard once per day). I get up much earlier than both of them, so could be out and back most of the time without it impacting on family life.

DH is cautiously supportive, in that he wants me to be happy, and if this is what it takes then so be it, but he's worried about it becoming very stressful and tying again (just as DS becomes independent). All my horsey friends are either on DIY livery or retirement livery, so it would help to hear from people who have a horse on full livery and work full-time, what is that like? Does it mean you genuinely don't have to worry about your horse during the week? Does it work with family life? Do you still feel you have a bond/ that your horse knows you?

Thank you if you have got this far!

I'm partially retired now but have worked full time with horse on full livery for quite a while now. I would say absolutely go for it as there's nothing like having your own, it can be made to work around family life with some compromises and if not now, when - however I would add a few caveats:

• You're kidding yourself if you think you won't worry/think about/be dealing with admin for your horse every day of the week - horse ownership is a 24/7 mental commitment however you do it! But my system now runs smoothly enough that (all being well) my physical presence is not needed at the yard for at least 4 days out of 7, and given some pre-planning I can be away on holidays or whatever without massive stress which is a huge win.

-This does however all go to pot if the horse is on box rest, unwell or needs extra care/attention, I've been lucky with current horse who is rarely sick or sorry but previously when I had more problematic ponies I was at the yard pretty much as often/for as long as when on DIY even if I was barely riding - the yard staff are excellent but I wouldn't leave the schooling of a green horse or rehabbing of an injured one in their hands, for one thing it would cost a fortune as they charge £££ for even the most junior apprentice to exercise for you (and I've seen what you get for the money and while it's fine just as exercise it's certainly not expert/high level groundwork, tends towards the running them around in circles on the lunge or putting them on the horse walker). So perhaps if stress-free is what you're aiming for maybe the horse needs to be a bit less of a project and more the type you can throw out into the field for a week and bring back in to hop on drama free?

• On a similar note check the t&C's and extra charges list very carefully - at my yard even when on their most 'platinum' livery package I've always ended up paying extra per month just to make it work - for instance even though theoretically daily bring in and turn out is included they only do one run to and from the field per day and if you want your horse brought in or out at any other times you pay (and their summer grazing is a good 15 min walk from the yard if they're stood in the bottom corner so 30 mins round trip x 2, that can make the difference between being able to ride after work or not). Holding for the vet or farrier is extra, clipping is extra, worming is extra, changing rugs in winter is extra - all things that if it wasn't for work I could do myself but saving the hassle and stress is what makes it possible for me so I cough up, but it does mean my actual livery bill is a lot more than the headline figure.

Sorry on the bonding thing, I'm quite cold-hearted and cynical about that in general but yes I'd say we're as bonded as I have been with horses on DIY, certainly he recognises me, we know one another very well and I trust him about as much as I've ever trusted any horse. I don't think the being on full livery and the fact various other people handle and care for him massively changes anything, I don't think he cares who shovels his shit, that's for sure 😂 . There are a few people on my yard who very rarely ride or do anything with their full livery horses for a variety of reasons and I think that probably does affect how their relationship is with the horse but 3-4 times a week is plenty IMO...

Thank you @maxelly , that's reassuring. I realise that you never stop thinking about them, but hope that full livery would avoid the phone calls saying 'your horse is upset on their own in the field because everyone else has been brought in early and the groom isn't here' when I'm 90 minutes away and in the middle of a clinic. Also, the mental load for DS and school has definitely reduced in the past couple of years, which would help.

I definitely think I'd need something a bit more mature/proven and preferably doing the job I want them for already. I'm thinking perhaps 10-14 years old, so I can hopefully have up to 10 years riding and then put them on retirement livery, although I am well aware that horses don't often fit with our plans! The worst case scenario would be a horse that was unwell/unsound a lot of the time - I am hoping that going to a livery with plenty of turnout would help that, as I know lots of horses at my old yard who struggled with musculoskeletal issues because of too much time stabled/ being overweight, but there are no guarantees.

I wouldn't be trying to ride on working days at all, so it would be regular Friday/Saturday/Sunday, but I would use some of my annual leave for extra days here and there, and could consider a part-loaner if the horse needed more exercise.

The heads-up about bring in/turn out and holding for farrier etc is helpful, thanks, I hadn't thought of that and probably need to do my calculations more thoroughly. I'm in the north, full livery here seems to cost around £120 per week headline rate, and I would plan for around £4000-£5000 per year on top of that for shoeing/ feed/ additional livery costs/ normal vet checks/ worming/ physio/saddle fitter/ rugs etc (which is what my mare used to cost me including freelance groom 2-3 days per week).

Ive owned continuously for over 40 yrs now , and been on a variety of full livery yards for the last 30 yrs . For me the issue is finding a good yard , we now only have one very ancient pony ( we don’t sell anything) as I can’t actually ride anymore as horses / dirt/ dust disagree with my emphysema and she’s on a very small private yard and it’s perfect . What we’ve found in the past , with our horses on various yards is that people lie about the amount of turnout , don’t feed as instructed , don’t get in as instructed , don’t care for your things like you’d expect them to . It’s really hard to find people you trust and where we are now we’ve been for about 13 yrs and it’s brilliant but it’s difficult to find the right one particularly if you’ve looked after your own and want it done to your standards .

I had a big break from owning until I could afford full livery. It’s pricey but yes I can easily not go 2/3 days a week and know she’ll be fine. My yard offers riding/exercise but I don’t take them up on that, I’ve got a sharer 2 days a week.

some full livery yards imo really cut corners - crap beds, skeleton staff, stingy with hay etc, so go and have a good nose and ask lots of questions.

I had my horse on full livery whilst working full time and with young kids. It was fine but I’ve found the definition of ‘full’ can vary a lot. A friend moved south and her full livery means she literally turns up to ride - all the grooming and tacking up is done for her. That is an extreme though I think. A good full livery yard owner will be on hand for emergencies as that’s what you are paying them for.

I got my first horse in November, and took the decision to have him on full livery because it is simply the only way that I can manage it. I’m also a medic, and although my compressed hours means I have one day off a week on which I can ride, it means I start work early and leave late to make up hours. I manage to ride three days a week, and occasionally squeeze in a quick hack after work if I’m very organised, plus extra days when I have annual leave.

I ended up moving yards within a couple of months, and he’s now at a lovely yard that suits us both perfectly. It’s about 25 mins from my house, not too big, and the owner is extremely caring about the horses that are kept there. I feel very confident that he’s well looked after when I’m not there, and he’s currently being exercised one day a week for me by one of the staff to build fitness.

I definitely recommend asking about things like whether staff will do rug changes for you, and if they will bring in for the farrier/vet. When I was moving yards, I was surprised at the difference in what was provided, and some things that weren’t available would have meant it wouldn’t have been practical for me to keep my horse there, like having to be there for farrier visits.

We have a pony on full livery, mostly because I had trouble finding a suitable yard with part-livery or DIY options that had space and wasn’t too far away. It’s a small private yard with the owner’s horses and a few liveries. It would be quite possible to go up just 3 days per week and there are a couple of owners who are hardly ever there.

The yard does feeds, mucking out, turn out and bring in, and rug changes. I need to be there for the farrier and vet. Pony shares a field with another livery horse.

Downsides - owners set routine and the amount of turnout time. I would say that generally I don’t worry about my horse when I’m not there and trust that she’s in good hands, though one time I went in the middle of a hot day just to groom and the water buckets in her field were empty (either they’d kicked them over or owner forgot to fill them up that morning).

Ours does everything I just pay bills and provide supplements ( she’s on a few) , they do vet , farrier , she’s out from 7- dusk unless the weather is very bad all year , they even get bathed if it’s hot . It is the only yard I’ve been at where I really don’t have to worry about anything .

Thank you all for your insights! I hadn’t realised how much full livery varies between yards. I would need a fairly comprehensive package to make this work (although I wouldn’t need grooming/tacking up!).

I think my next step is to contact/visit all the yards I can find offering full livery within a 30-minute drive and find out whether they can do what I need/ how much it costs, then I can go on the waiting list at any yards that are workable and seem good/ happy liveries/ well organised.

From previous searches, I don’t think there are many yards that will fit the bill, so I might end up with a long wait. I would be wary of anywhere that subcontracts the livery services, as I’ve seen that go pear shaped rapidly when the yard owner falls out with the livery provider.

It’s good to hear that you’ve been able to find places where you have peace of mind and are happy with the quality of care.

I lost mine last year but I’d say that if you can find genuinely good full livery it works well. Mine was on 5 day full, DIY weekends (could’ve had 7 days if wanted) but during the week I could completely trust them to get on with it. But I went up daily anyway as the yard was 3 mins drive away. It was a tiny private yard at a home rather than commercial and they catered for my mares myriad health conditions.
The problem is finding genuinely good full livery, lots promise the world but don’t deliver.

I haven’t replaced my mare yet because I have an almost 6 year old DD and I just can’t get the riding time because of the mum guilt and endless activities at weekends. I’m hoping to pick up again when she’s 12 and can stay at home when I ride.

I think you're right to visit the yards first to work out what's around and how things differ between them. The only way to cope full time if you cannot drop things and attend at short notice is to be on full or part livery where there is an owner/staff onside offering 24hr emergency care and exercise if needed on your work days. And YY to the mental load/admin being 7 days a week!

A sharer/part loaner could be a good solution, but they can also let you down at short notice, be away for holidays etc, so somewhere that can offer backup as en extra is probably a must. Even if that is only a quick lunge, walker or 1/2 round the block, it's better than nothing and hopefully just short-term. With income from a sharer you could pay to have a trainer/freelancer school once a week, though some places are fussy about sharers as they often lack experience, so make sure you check that out too.

Definitely visit the yards first. It’ll give you a sense of what the other liveries are like, and if the owner is someone who you will get on with, as much as it’s possible to tell. I’d be surprised if anyone was prepared to take you and your horse on without a yard visit, to be honest.

Aside from the questions people have already suggested, it’s a good idea to ask about things like what’s available in terms to arena access (may be limited if the yard is large and offers competitions/external hires), and if there’s a booking system. Also what the hacking is like, and if it’s advertised as being off road, whether you need to do any riding on roads to get there. Also if there’s a choice of bedding (for example, at mine sawdust is included, and if we want anything different, we pay extra for it).

When I was looking, I was amazed at home much variation there was, and also quickly realised that some flashy, popular places were offering things that I really didn’t need, like a horse walker.

Hi I have a horse on full livery. My advice would be to check the turnout. With decent group turnout I do feel you can get piece of mind. Wait till later in the year..any yard that doesn't have a bit of mud or some grubby horses is not doing the basics.. generally if people have been there a while and horses look relaxed anything else can be overcome. Good luck..buy that pony 😁

I would agree with a lot of what’s been said already. Full livery varies a lot with what is included. We have always had ours on full or part livery. Generally it’s been a bit hit and miss with the standard of care. There are some amazing yards but they are hard to find, and often have a waiting list. I work full time and it gives me some reassurance they are being cared for but we still go down most days. Having horses is pretty exhausting but you aleady know that! I can’t imagine our life without them but I’m yet to be on a yard where I can fully switch off!

I am a doctor too and started riding again when my kids were more grown up. I have a horse on pt livery , for me that means she is turned in / out ; fed ; and basic care delivered. If I want more I can buy it from the yard eg, someone to hold her for the dentist if I can’t be there. It works great for me. I am out a lot, but the children (now all adults) don’t mind ! I don’t have a partner, and don’t have time for a relationship now ! My yard is happy, supportive and a great place. Not all are so lucky. It is very expensive, but I’m lucky that I can afford it. Go for it !

Having just moved yards due to not being happy with the quality of care my horse was getting at the full livery yard a few "lessons learnt" -

• how much hay is included in the package and try and find out if they will proactively give your horse what they need or if you will need to have a constant arguement with them to get anywhere near the right amount/whats included in the package (tried to say my 16hh ID only needed 5kg overnight having been out on very poor grass over the day)
• Do they do any checks of the horse - I honestly think my horse could have come in injured and as long as he walked in from the field no one would have noticed
• Who is doing the day to day care/yard work and are the compitent to do it.
• How do you comunicate with the YO over requests/care - in the 6 months I was at this yard I never saw here to speak to, everything was by FB messages and often not getting any response to messages/stuff not being done (including bute not being given twice - gave my notice within 1hr of the second time)
• Try and find out how much of a churn of clients they have (I know hard) I was told that they had some people who had been there for years which was true.. however there also was a constant cycle of people arriving/leaving.

Update: I've been phoning and visiting yards and, thanks to this thread, asking lots of questions.

I've just yesterday gone on the waiting list at a yard that ticks all the boxes. It's at the very limit of my 30-minutes drive time from home requirement, but is close enough to work that I will be able to ride after work in the summer.

Three full time staff all BHS qualified, one of whom lives on site. A small indoor and decent outdoor school on site (and access to other indoor and outdoor schools at 2 nearby DIY yards owned by the same people), XC jumps, amazing private hacking. The horses all look well and relaxed, grazing well managed (even in this dry weather), turnout is year round, ad lib hay or haylage and straw included (horses who were in when I visited had nice beds and plenty of hay). Horses handled and checked/ feet picked/ rug changed every day. Yard manager seems lovely, knowledgeable, very clear about livery package and has a price list that shows what extras are available and for what cost, including things like holding for farrier/vet. There are regular yard visits from one farrier and two different vets, but they are happy for you to use someone different if you prefer. It's at the more expensive end of the yards I've spoken to, but includes a lot for the price and is affordable.

They rarely have availability, but have one horse whose owner is currently looking for retirement livery, so are expecting that stable to become available probably end of October.

I still have one place to visit, which is closer to home but further from work, and has a longer waiting list, but I think I have probably found my place! 😊

That sounds fab OP. As is knowing the reason why the vacancy is coming up! You can always keep an eye out for a potential sharer if you want one to help with costs, and also for consistency if you don't want too many different people riding your horse, especially if you go away too. Good luck, exciting times 😃

That sounds great and I really hope it works out for you.

Now to find the right horse to fill the stable!

Thank you ☺️.
Finding the right horse will be a whole other challenge, I find horse-buying really stressful as it’s such a minefield!
I’ll need to wait until I know for definite when the stable is available, then start looking. I can just pay stable rent until I find a suitable horse, so there’s no hurry.

all logistics of what is covered by FL aside…

very very naive to think it won’t be just as tying, if you want that bond with a horse- especially if you’re only riding 3x pw- then realistically although you’ll be free of physical workload on work days (but not mental really as someone else already pointed out) your days off will revolve around them and I’m not sure it really sounds like DH wants that life. Horses are all encompassing, livery type regardless.

I think you’d need a package that included exercising or have someone come in to exercise atleast once pw in your absence- assuming you’ll definitely commit to riding every day you have off, no matter how exhausted you are. Unless you find yourself a unicorn that magically stays both fit and sane for minimal workload 😅

best of luck, I wouldn’t change it for the world but we couldn’t go away this Xmas because extended family decided it all last minute and it simply wasn’t early enough to plan ahead for care for ours, so we’ll stay home whilst everyone else travels and celebrates together. I’m not upset in slightest but does stand to reason that they are quite tie.

full livery really is such a mixed bag and in my experience, even good yards who really do treat them like their own in our absence will have a little bitch or running joke about how much an owner spends there when the livery is a “part timer” due to life commitments. Have seen it with my own eyes and always makes me sad!

I hope you’re able to make it work for you. X

We have ours on FL. They are exercised (mostly hacking) three times a week and we ride Saturday and Sunday and one or two nights in the winter, but more in the summer.

We are so happy with the care and support. We have a similar commute time to the yard as you’ve mentioned so add in catching, grooming, riding, cleaning tack, faffing about, turning out etc. it takes up about 2.5-3hrs in an evening (after school and work), at the weekend, we can be there longer just because we love it. Maybe your DH could take up golf and then you won’t have the guilt 😁