Ending horse ownership with a friend

[Blimeyblighty]

in Dec myself and a friend bought a 14.2h 12 year old mare for £2k. She was intended for our teenage daughters to share (3 girls, 2 of which are mine).

Quite quickly the mare, who was sold as a happy hacker, became increasingly less happy. We faffed about with a physio & a saddle fitter before getting a vet check & treating her for ulcers. By this point my friend’s daughter felt she hadn’t bonded with the mare & the daughter had stopped doing their share of the routine (parents were doing it instead). It also didn’t really work between the girls in terms of their dynamic & separate to any questions about the horse, we’ve agreed that sharing isn’t working for them.

Ulcer treatment has been completed & my daughters want to bring the mare back into work over the summer. They feel she hasn’t been given a fair chance yet & still has potential.

My friend wants out from it all, which I feel a bit like is leaving me holding the problem, as well as 100% of the bills & responsibility when I signed up for 50%. She wants me to pay her the £1k that represents her initial purchase price. I’m reluctant to do that, partly because I feel like she’s just walking away from it all, & partly because I don’t think the mare is still ‘worth’ the same as she was? She’s currently out of work, new history of gastric issues, and not the healthy happy hacker we bought.

In general we were very naive in buying her, & I realise that this is a problem of our own making in not setting up clear agreements - we were eager & carried away!

so TLDR: do I pay my friend or not? I am minded to pay some but not all of the nominal figure. My DH is furious & doesn’t want to pay any…

Id say the way forward depends largely on whether you are prepared to sacrifice the friendship, how important is it for you?

Yeah that’s kind of the problem. Also I don’t like conflict. Do I value that at 1k?!

also feel like this is the risk when you make an investment in something. It might loose value, and right now it has. If we said we wanted to sell up & were truly honest about the mare & her behaviours etc I think we would struggle to sell!?

Is there a way to get an independent valuation of this mare?
Furthermore, would she accept the valuation?

She can’t just get her money back like it’s the same as the day she paid. What she’s actually getting is a way out of a load of aggro she doesn’t want. She’s lucky to be able to just offload it onto you, if that’s what’ll happen, so anything you pay is down to your goodwill rather than the idea the horse is still worth the same price. Have a think about what you could manage to pay. I wouldn’t go over £500, but if she’s shitty about that, I’d reduce it further. None of this is anyone’s fault, the naivety was shared and the impact is shared, even if she gets to wash her hands of it hereafter that’s still what you’d term ‘cutting your losses’.

I know nothing about horses but it seems to me that they are money pits (no offence intended) that being the case should she not be paying you to take this liability off of her hands?
Obviously she won't want to acknowledge any of that so perhaps you need to think through all the options and then present her with a case that she can't argue with?

It depends though, would you sell the horse? Your daughters want to keep going so they want the horse- she doesn’t. Does it not make sense so that you’re selling to her?

You mean she’s selling to me? Yeah, by us saying we will keep going with the horse, we are stopping her from selling to anyone else. I get that. I think she would struggle to sell to someone else at the same price we went in at though.

Horses are money pits, the horse has indeed lost value with the new medical conditions could end up costing you a few thousand in vet bills. Id tell her your doing her a favour taking her off her hands - but if you do sell the horse youll return her 1k to hee then.

If the friendship meant something to me, and if the girls still wanted to be friends, I think I might be willing to give her £500 back as a gesture of good will. Surely she can understand that you're ending up with a lot more cost than you had bargained for?? If so she should do the reasonable thing and accept that 50% back is more than fair.

And if she kicks off at that...well I'd give her the full amount just to prevent any aggro and also because I wouldn't want to be beholden to her on any level. But we would no longer be friendly.

I think that’s really cheeky, your ‘friend’ knows all the issues and will be well aware the mare is not worth what was paid for it. I’d call her bluff…. no I’m finding it too difficult and expensive as well, let’s sell her together. Put her up for sale for the £2k and see what happens. Don’t get left holding this one, £1k could be the least of your losses.

What was written up in your initial agreement?

IANAL, but I’d guess that would make a big difference.

i would get her valued by a vet/your trainer or similar- a professional. Ideally a few and then pick the mid point.

Personally, I think you’re right, the mare’s objective value has deceased. As I’m sure you know ulcers can be brought on by stress and of course management, but very often they seem to be secondary to (the stress/pain of) a primary physical problem. I’m afraid to say I wouldn’t be surprised if you later discover there is another issue, eg PSD, kissing spine, arthritis somewhere. Has she had a full work up at the clinic to look for slight lameness issues etc?

I think it’s also worth considering this as £2k for a middle aged horse who is safe enough for teenage girls to hack and enjoy is very cheap in the current market. I wonder if perhaps there was a previous issue which has flared up as she’s done more work?

I would say you buy back your share at her current worth. Obviously it’s a big risk to you. Unfortunately there could be more issues uncovered and therefore more liabilities, either in vet’s fees or a pony that has to retire and has ongoing costs.

However, legally I don’t know where you’d stand. But I bet if her daughter lost interest, but you guys had improved her, she was now out competing and worth £7k, she wouldn’t accept being given £1k for her share.

Ah @Sunnyafternooning of course we didn’t have a written agreement!! I think we can safely say we have both learnt lots from this experience…

she has had a full vet check, no issues evident which was why we scoped for ulcers. The vet thought they had probably been brought on by moving from a very small yard to a big one with us.

I would tell her that if she no longer wants the horse then that's fine but you don't want to "buy her out".

There are a couple of choices:
Do you want this pony even if it’s free? Transfer of ownership to you means you take on all the cost and risk of more vets bills.
so option 1. You agree to this. If the mare is healthy in 12 months time and back in work, you will pay her her £1000. Write it up as a loan agreement. Or agree eg. £500 as full and final settlement now.
option 2, sell the pony and cut your respective losses. Find a loan pony for your daughters.

The prices of horses at the moment, £3k for a safe allrounder/happy hacker is an absolute bargain. So if your girls want the horse and you have the money, I'd just buy her out. The alternative is you're going to have to put the horse on the open market, agree a price then split it. You'll probably get over £3k if you do that, but your daughters won't have the horse they love. The other thing to factor in is that presumably they're teenagers if you've bought a 14.2. If they bring her back into work, she could sell for £7 or 8k with a bit of experience under her belt when they outgrow her/leave home. So you could potentially be quids in....

To be fair the other factor as well is all the gear we’ve bought 50/50 for her - wheelbarrow, martingale, half pad, bucket etc etc which is just staying with her.

I would refuse to pay her half back and suggest she finds a loaner instead ? Or she can walk away and that 1k can go towards your increased costs

Well really there are only 3 ways to go here

1. you buy her out at an agreed price
2. the pony is sold and proceeds split
3. you tell her to sell / loan / share her half out which potentially will impact what your children can do with her . Frankly I’d just agree a price and buy her out .

Thing is £2k for a 14.2 12 year old kids pony / safe hack is insanely cheap - surely you had at least an inkling that at that price all was not going to be well immediately and a lot of investment (time and money) was going to be needed to get her to be suitable? Did you discuss this kind of scenario with your friend, or what would happen if one of the girls wanted to give up which is always a risk with teens?

TBH I wouldn't be that sure that she's worth less than £2k now you've treated the ulcers and she's ready to go, I've seen out of work, needing full retraining and probably riddled with ulcers and other health issues fresh off the track TBs sell for £2k! I think I'd tally up your friends half of all the kit then either give her the £1k and she gives the stuff back or offer £500 and she keeps it. £2500 is still a very reasonable price for a horse who would be worth £5k+ if sound and fit. Otherwise if you ultimately end up in a legal fight with her I expect you'll end up paying that in legal fees, the mare will have to be sold to an uncertain future plus all the stress, just not worth it IMO

As someone currently horse shopping, £2k is an absolute bargain price if the pony is intact a safe happy hacker.

Has the pony improved with the ulcer treatment?

The move, coming into season, 3 girls sharing her would be very unsettling for a lot of equines and I think she definitely needs a chance to shine.

Personally, if it were my friend. I’d offer to buy her out for £500 and that be the end of it. If she is horse savvy she will know the pony will be worth much more than that if she comes back into work nicely but if she’s not willing to contribute and do her share of the work then she’s not entitled to any potential increase in value.

Ive just had to heartbreakingly turn down a gorgeous mare I am in love with because the owner wants £4k for her. She a 9 year old, newly backed broodmare with no history and a matter of hours under saddle. She’ll easily sell for £8k if she does well over summer.

I also am going to agree with the comments above saying that 2K is very, very cheap for the pony you have described some may say suspiciously so …..

But that aside, whether it has worked out or not, really you went into this 50/50. So my genuine opinion is that you pay her the 50% back and take full ownership of the horse and the equipment, OR you sell the horse and split the proceeds 50/50.
Whilst I do appreciate that the diagnosis of ulcers may affect her value (although these sound like they’ve been treated), the pony was so cheap to start off with that there’s no way her value has dropped that much despite that.

As a moot point, I don’t think your friend should be liable for your increased costs going forwards just because she wants out. You also had the choice at that point of whether you carried on with the mare without your friend- so it was your decision to do that, not hers.

The move, coming into season, 3 girls sharing her would be very unsettling for a lot of equines and I think she definitely needs a chance to shine.

this is exactly how I feel. I’m not sentimental about animals but just feels really shitty to move her on now - and what would the ad say? Treated for ulcers after aggressive behaviour on the ground, not in ridden work, hopefully all good now though!! Doesn’t sound great does it?

I think I’ll offer my friend £750 & draw a line under it.

Just to clarify btw that she was £2k for a happy hacker - we knew she was green in the school & indeed she is. I wouldn’t sell her on as a kids pony, she’s forward & rude & not a novice ride. She is okay for my competent teens, & possibly with some instruction & training she could do some low level jumping at home etc - I would be amazed if she ever went out competing.