Where do all the top male riders come from?

[Tupperwarelid]

I’m watching the showjumping on the BBC and the majority of riders are male. Where do they all come from? I know a lot are sons of former riders but there are some that aren’t.

When I’ve ridden it’s predominantly females having lessons, loaning and owning liveries but this doesn’t seem to carry on to the top levels. I know things are equalling out but given the numbers that ride at younger ages I would expect to see more women riders at the top levels?

has anyone got any ideas?

Do the men have military backgrounds? You can keep your own horse at Sandhurst if you are based there. Plenty of men ride horses in the Calvary so perhaps learn there and carry on the sport after if they are mostly older men.

I think some of the big powerful grand prix horses are more suited to men riding them. Lower levels of show jumping have more women it's the elite where the men take over. So I think it's more about the elite horses.

In racing the vast majority of stable lads/ jockeys I met did not come from a riding background. They'd taken racing up as a teenager or a few were from racing families. So I worked with professionals jockeys who'd never sat in a normal saddle and never ridden in a arena.

Some of the horses that were jumping yesterday looked very strong. I thought a couple were going to jump into the crowd at one point.

The Whittaker family are an interesting case study.

John Whittaker had three children the eldest a girl, middle is a boy, and the youngest another girl. All rode from being tiny.

All three jump competitively but guess which one is riding at the highest level? 🤔

What a weird idea to be able to ride a racehorse and never ride 'normally'.

There's a racetrack in my town and last time we went we happened to leave at the same time as one of the (women) jockeys who just climbed into her slightly crappy Renault Clio and folded her saddle onto a small plastic bag, it really was like something made out of paper.

Back in the day there used to be quite a few Irish showjumpers who were in the services but it’s not the norm for the English ones , they will normally have come up through the ranks of junior showjumping etc .

A friend of mine pulled her son out of private school and now home schools due to the amount of bullying he received for being a horse rider.

Irish

Hunting families

Riding dynasties

I could be completely wrong, but I think men are more likely to ‘do what it takes’ to win at the more elite level. Some of the regular ‘training’ practises of show jumpers make the CDJ video look like she’s pony patting. Obviously not all riders are doing the worst of the worst, but many top riders are, and honestly, I think most women wouldn’t have the stomach for it.

I would hate for people to think it takes cruel training methods to achieve the best results and I personally don’t believe that to be true. Not saying it doesn’t happen at the top level just that it isn’t necessary.
I do think in the ring to win a jump off you need to be prepared to push the horse to the point where you are prepared to risk injury. There also aren’t many retired horses on these yards, once they’ve done their job they are mostly despatched.

as much as I don’t want to believe it, I think sport generally is brutal and many, many people think brutality is necessary to reach the top.

i am involved in junior sport- not equestrian, and was on the periphery of the gymnastics scandal a few years ago.

the amount of comments on social media along the lines of these kids are just whingers, their coaches methods got them their medals. You have to be tough and not quit because coaches are mean.

the sport my dc does has a couple of ex Eastern European coaches who are big bullies. They produce excellent juniors, most of whom are burned out by 12/14. However they get a lot of support from the NGB, who think one of these juniors will be the next Olympic medallist. No one else gets a chance, developing athletes slowly and correctly means they are “behind” as the same age, they don’t get the input and support (and lottery funding) from the NGB, so quit because you cannot succeed without the NGB.

sorry a bit of a rant. But yes, I do believe many people thing “tough love” equals success, and I think women are less likely to treat their horses in that way. You will get one or two that manage to stick it out until the NGB takes notice, or can afford
to keep their horses long enough to produce them.

I've thought about this before. I agree with the comments about learning away from riding schools.
And being from money families.

At one point I wondered if it was more boys, men have the ego, confidence, or something to go over crazy high jumps but that's not something you see in other crazy sports like skateboarding or skiing. So it can't be that.

The other factor as with all walks of life is that hormones in males are more consistent. No periods, pregnancy or menopause to get in the way.

I think there is a sex difference but it's more a willingness to see the horses as objects rather than creatures with their own desires and needs (was going to say see them as people!).

What I might see as cruelty or harshness is more like indifference or how you might see a bike you raced on.

There's lots of boys in the 138 & 148 circuits & many of the top BS riders come up from ponies

There's always been lots of boys competing at the higher levels. It just seems to be boys aren't as interested in leisure riding etc.

My DH rides and has a horse, but didn't come to riding until quite late (30). Fifteen years later and he is very good but losing the will with all the politics on yards!

Our pony club is a large branch currently full to capacity and we have 2 boys. They are brothers and are 6 and 4 so not even from different families or guaranteed to keep going to any level of competency. I guess unlike many sports, men and women compete against each other and strength and balance is important especially in the higher speed, higher action disciplines like racing, eventing etc. you do see a higher number of women at dressage maybe?

Yeah my DH has also been put off by attitudes to men in the sport. Many people seem to see a man at a riding school and assume he's some kind of weirdo, especially if he's straight, and willing to wear the appropriate kit rather than make himself uncomfortable trying to participate while wearing jeans.

But it’s not the case in eventing - there were 9 riders on the long list for the Olympics - 6 women and 3 men. 6 showjumpers were on the long list - all men. We were at the Longines show in London last year and the vast majority of the competitors in the 2 classes were women, the ratio of men to women started evening out a bit at 3 and then suddenly at 4 and 5* the women disappeared - apart from the billionaires’ daughters 🤷‍♀️.

From a numbers point of view it doesn’t make sense that a sport would go from 90%+ female participation at grassroots level to 90%+ male domination at elite level. Women can and do make it as elite riders in the other Olympic disciplines and it’s simply not the case that elite horses are too difficult/strong for women to ride. Some of the dressage horses are unbelievably hot/sharp with huge movement.

I don’t have a axe to grind here as my daughter’s a eventer not a Showjumper but the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get! It seems a massive injustice is being committed against many brave, talented female riders and I don’t understand why the governing body isn’t doing more to at least understand what’s going on.

Bold fail - that should be 2 star classes

You are correct that racing is male dominated but you are wrong about eventing.

Eventing of all the equestrian disciplines has the highest proportion of women at the highest levels for the longest time. We've had women win all of the major titles (Olympic gold, world champion, world number one, European champion, Badminton, Burghley, Kentucky), the first person to win the grand slam was a woman and it took more than a decade for a man to win. We have even had all teams and all female podiums (2021 and 2023 Europeans all female podiums for example). This isn't new either, women have been winning since they were first permitted to enter, even when disadvantaged by the minimum weight rules.

@liveforsummer what is the 'full to capacity ' number of members? My DS is in a small pony club, less than 20 members and is the only boy.

When we had our AGM we had 59 members and it was being capped at 60 (small amount of leeway for family groups) as we'd struggle to accommodate any more at rallies due to size and facilities at venues or have enough spaces at camp.

My dc were in a pony club that had 144 members. They were all ages so didn’t all attend the same camps. Members didn’t come to all rallies either but I suppose being a large branch there were just more rallies at different locations. A pony club with less than 20 members would surely only be a handful of families. I don’t understand how it would be possible to manage instruction for 20 children from 4 to 25. How do they manage to find enough at the same level to put them in groups?

I do think boys/men seem less likely to keep up/take up the sport as leisure riders. I have known riding schools where a number of boys had lessons- I think having a critical mass of boys and older boys present helped as it gives the younger boys role models to look up to, and they don't see it as just a girly thing.

However, one issue that boys can run into more easily is that it doesn't take being an abnormally large 16yo to outgrow many riding school weight limits, and finding a first horse as a 14st 16yo novice is a lot harder than doing it as a 10st novice 16yo girl- the horse for the boy is likely to be more expensive in all ways, and potentially a scarier prospect if the boy is a bit overhorsed.

Definitely in families with children who ride their own horses, the boys usually seem to ride too (although if only one child rides, it usually seems to be a girl!). I've known a few boys on yards who are involved in pony club, and at least one was already showjumping to a reasonable level at about 14.

One thing to bear in mind with showjumping is that at even at local level if you can go out and win a class then there's normally a half decent prize- maybe not cash, but certainly goodies and even tack shop vouchers etc, and sometimes enough cash to at least break even on your petrol- there's nothing like this in other disciplines, at least around here until you're getting to a pretty decent affiliated level. Perhaps this chance to win a tangible prize attracts boys more? Perhaps it's also seeing male role models in the sport?

Certainly, it is possible to make a reasonable living as a showjumper, even if you aren't winning big classes all the time. And there can be less options for men to make money in horses- I know a few young women who make a reasonable living schooling ponies, and backing children's ponies- if you're light enough to produce a decent 12.2hh or 13.2hh pony, then it's usually possible to make a reasonable profit. I think it's much harder to do this with a 15.2 or 16.2 unless you get a competition record with them- but I'm happy to be corrected!