Do you think this pony is overpriced?

[couraggio]

12.2hh British Riding Pony mare, 17 years old, £10K.

She’s a very pretty mare who has shown in the past. Has a very good record at Pony Club and NSEA showjumping at 60cm and 70cm. Good x-country too. By all accounts is safe, sane and sensible. No known medical conditions.

She’s a lovely pony but £10K for a 17 year old seems a lot to me. Or is this what ponies like this are going for these days?

If the pony really is 100% in all ways and with nothing that would flag of concern on a 5 stage vetting (which I'd be surprised at TBH, most 17 year olds that have had a competitive career have some degree of wear and tear and vettings these days are very thorough) then she would be worth that IMO, if completely sound she could well have 5 years+ of competitive career left and these types do hold their worth, particularly if easy/schoolmaster sorts rather than 'quirky'. Obviously there is the issue of the purchaser potentially then needing to provide a retirement home but then again, if she stays sound could well be able to stay in light work even longer, some of these ponies go on forever. But if something, even a relatively minor or early something flags on the vetting I would expect that to mean room for negotiation and/or would not buy at that price...

If you take the age out of the equation then no definitely not overpriced. With the age factor, depends on medical history I guess. Which I would check with the vet history as well as a vetting, to possibly include x rays of hocks and maybe feet.
Wouldn't be a deal breaker!

If she is currently competitive they will be selling as a schoolmistress and people will pay for safety even with a few underlying issues. They will hope to get another 2 to 3 years of life out of her and the experience that will give someone will be worth its weight and gold.

Quality kids ponies are like hen's teeth. Parents will pay.

Honestly, yes? She's an older pony and small. A 12yo 14.2hh, yes worth that every day of the week, I'd be expecting nearer the £5/6k mark for the pony described

I don’t know if this is over priced as if she is as described then they are like hens teeth. Very few ponies will do everything on that list for a novice child. That said she is not top flight competition pony as a 12.2 would need to jump higher to do bsja.
The age also wouldn’t put me off as the smaller ponies do tend to go on longer. She could get to mid twenties before needing to slow down and even then could be a beginners lead rein pony if her health holds up.
The biggest question is whether she is actually as described.
Are you in the market for such a pony or just idly scrolling through adverts?

@BobaCob We’re in the market and have viewed said pony. She seems as described from what we’ve seen (although only saw her over a few very small jumps (as my DD is only jumping small) and haven’t seen her hacking) and seller seems very trustworthy. £10K is just an awful lot to lose if we get her home and she isn’t as described…

We would of course get a 5 stage vetting.

DD is fairly nervous but does want to compete, so we do need one of these rare types of push button pony.

Hmmm I bought a 17 year old pony that was absolutely amazing but bigger. I paid 3k less but got a lot of tack and rugs etc with it (2 saddles, 3 bridles etc)
Pony had to be retired not too long after we bought it but he gave my daughter THE most amazing 1.5 years of her life and I would pay it all over again for him! So basically I guess you can't put a price on that! He is retired with us now but I would make the decision to buy him again a million times over

Ours passed a 5 stage vetting

Hmm why did you only see her over a few very small jumps? Did you not see her ridden by her current owner/rider before your DD got up? If marketed as a competition schoolmaster (and priced accordingly!) I'd expect to see lots and lots of recent videos of competition success plus on viewing at home to see her schooling over a course a bit higher than the comp height, so if competing 60-70 should easily pop around 80-90 at home with a child rider (important for a novice combo that the competition fences are well within scope, so as to be able to comfortably cope with a dodgy stride, spooky filler or even total miss). I wouldn't take 'no jockey' for an answer either, for £10k and a pony apparently well known at PC and on the local circuit you can damn well borrow a jockey, or put the pony on sales livery surely?

Sorry I should have mentioned all of this too, very good post.
The Pony we purchased was a member of our Pony Club, we tried him numerous times and saw him out and about lots too

Your comment about the seller seeming trustworthy rings massive alarm bells for me. Absolutely no seller ever in the history of horses is trustworthy! If you haven’t already, take a trusted experienced horse person to view the pony before getting it vetted. And listen to them if they say it’s not suitable.

I would agree with others. You need to see her jumping bigger and out hacking.
If she is as good as described then I would expect the seller to be demonstrating this.
No way would I part with 10k without being damned sure pony is as described.

@maxelly Good question - she was ridden by current rider over the very small jumps (we’re talking 30/40cm) and then the owner told my DD to get on. I should have asked the current rider to go over bigger jumps before they swapped but I didn’t think of it for some odd reason (I’d been ill all week and just driven for 3 hours so I’m putting it down to that - I wouldn’t normally be so hopeless!).

I did ask to see her in an open field but I’m not sure if there is hacking on their doorstep so we were just taken to a very small field and walked around that. I wish I’d done a bit better on the viewing, particularly as they’re so far away from us! I have seen videos of the pony jumping 60/70cm at comps and it goes round great. I also checked NSEA and Pony Club records and most of the time it goes around clear (although there were a couple of eliminations in the last year - I think this is where the rider was going for some very tight turns on jump-offs and had a run-out/fall - they did mention such a fall at the viewing). I don’t mind that as DD is not so competitive that she’d be doing any tight turns.

The seller is an ex-DC, and I’ve spoken to a couple of references (including PC) who gave glowing references, so I do think she’s trustworthy.

I’ve asked if they’d be open to a right to return within 30 days if not as described, subject to them getting to keep 10% of the price (£1K), but they are reluctant (which I do understand). So I don’t really know how to proceed. If she was a bit cheaper I would take the risk but £10K is an awful lot to lose, and seems a lot to me for a 17 year old.

No way on that update. Not the pony for you. At that price I would be bending over to make it easy for you to decide.

Move on, look for next one.

I would also contact local pony club and ask them. If you really want to pursue it.

Where are you based.

Why is the pony for sale?
I'm just thinking from what you have said about eliminations. Could it be that the pony is starting to struggle with the bigger heights due to some arthritis or something causing refusals?
Did you think the current rider was too big?

Oh and don't worry about not remembering to ask everything at a viewing. It's really hard to get everything checked off. And also people unfortunately lie!

Oh and also she can get friends to lie or bend the truth for references too.
Not saying all sellers lie but it's pretty common unfortunately.

They’ve had the pony for 2.5 years and the rider is definitely big on her now. So reason for sale checks out. I should probably dig more into what happened in both eliminations and there was also an 8-fault round a few months ago.

Honestly the best advice I was ever given was only ever pay what you can afford to lose. Even a young horse with impeccable record t stage vetting and clean xrays can go lame within 24 hours.

If you are concerned about the price now wait for another one to come along. At 12.2 it won't be long before your DC is on a larger pony. Save your money in the meantime for the right horse.

I was completely duped by an pony club DC once who was allegedly trustworthy so I wouldn't put any weight in this.
Eliminations would have alarm bells ringing for me. Tight turns don't lead to eliminations just a refusal potentially.
I would want to see the Pony galloped in an open space field or beach and brought back to walk safely with no effort from the rider for what you are looking for.
The 17 year old we bought literally went whatever pace you set him at and stayed there until you asked something different of him.

One of the references was from the assistant DC for their Pony Club branch. She gave a very good reference. The other was from a friend of the owner who runs local shows they attend - but the owner was upfront about her being a friend.

Frankly, I can’t see my DD jumping higher than 50cm in the time we would have her so not too fussed if she’s not 100% consistent at 70cm. I do want her consistent at 50cm though, and I want her super-duper sane and sensible out hacking.

@Fuzzyandwarm Yes I would really have likes to see a canter in an open space. I’m just taking the owner at their word when it comes to hacking - it’s not like jumping results which you can look up online… Maybe we need to go back and ask to see that and also see her jump a full course at height. Kicking myself for not doing first viewing properly!

If you viewed her at that price I am guessing you can afford it. In your shoes I would go back for a second viewing and stipulate what you want demonstrated. If they aren’t prepared to show her hacking and jumping bigger jumps then walk away.

How did your daughter feel on the pony? That gives a good indication.
It's hard finding one especially for a slightly nervous child. Mine can be nervous so I've been there!

Is there any scope to going for a second viewing? We almost bought a pony a few months ago, went back for a second viewing and the pony was completely different. Lucky escape!

Or are the competing anytime over the holidays and you could go and watch? Then you see what they are like out and about, in a busy warm up etc?

At that age though I'd certainly advise hock x rays alongside a vetting. If there are signs of arthritis (highly likely in a pony of that age) then medicating the hocks could be a possibility and you could potentially negotiate a price reduction too. (Providing the pony was good in the other ways).

That's fine and totally fair enough, and this pony may well be that for her, but in that case yes she's overpriced at £10k. There is quite a big difference between a total competition schoolmaster at whatever height and a pony which is completely reliable, totally safe and won't ever do anything silly, but where actually although they can and have gone clear, that's actually getting to the upper end of their scope and so may stop or have a pole at that height in a competition atmosphere if not ridden properly. Not saying the latter is a bad pony, in fact may even be better for you and your DD as I think kids learn better from that sort of pony than a push button jumping machine (so long as safe of course) but the fact is the former may well be worth £10k but the latter definitely isn't, simply by virtue of numbers/supply and demand. Sounds a bit as though maybe, if you really do like her and think she can do your job it might be worth seeing if there's a bit of room for negotiation on price and if so go back for another viewing, see the things you missed (hacking and jumping a bit higher for the other rider), then think about vetting, since as previously said I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least something to uncover there purely by virtue of pony's age?