So what do we think of CDJ’s sanctions and statement ?

[Withoutorwithin77]

On a personal level I wish her every happiness with her pregnancy and new baby due in February.

On a professional level:

~I think the length of suspension is probably about right seeing as her career is already destroyed and she has suffered a terrible pile on.

~BUT I think her statement was rather cursory and didn’t convey enough acknowledgement of her wrongdoing.

And she failed to mention the massive negative effect that her actions have had on ordinary riders, not necessarily dressage riders, who try and do the right thing, and on equestrian sport as a whole. I’m a bit angry about it tbh.

I’d be interested in knowing what others think? I am just finishing work and haven’t read any statements by BD either.

Partly agree yet I see on a weekly basis cruel practices being over looked in the collecting rings and poor riding being rewarded.
The BD list of "approved" bits is laughable and BS allow horses to have extremely severe bits/noseband combinations + horses to be jumped in draw reins in warm ups.
Discussion and hang wringing behind closed doors is useless, all bodies should be taking a united stand together NOW, not in 3 years time.

I am a BD + BE member thanks

I think there is a lack of recognition of how difficult and costly it is to police just affiliated members. I agree BD is not particularly edifying at the moment, but I suspect no worse - and quite possibly better - than it has ever been.

I am sceptical of all the keyboard warriors who profess great understanding and empathy. I am - as I have said in previous threads - far less concerned about what CDJ did than I am about the unthinking, unintended abuse that happens at “grass roots”. This is I suspect far more widespread and easier to tackle. I would rather see money spent there, to do the greatest good per £

Agree completely

I very much agree with showing a united front" but you won't do that without open and transparent communication.

Basically you are asking posters genuinely interested in this subject to keep silent and "trust" that everything will be ok because the governing bodies are doing a huge amount of work behind the scenes, without telling them what that work is! And when the work they have done in the past has fed in to this issue?

I take your point that I am not a BD member and as such am out of the loop, and won't be receiving updates, but why the need for so much secrecy in the first place? It's this defensive and patronising attitude among the top echelons of the sport that is actually killing trust.

You said to me that,

there is a HUGE amount going on behind the scenes across the disciplines that you don’t see. Sometimes because it’s not appropriate to share with the public and sometimes because more work is yet to be done

It's fantastic to hear that there is a huge amount going on behind the scenes. It really is! But what in particular is 'not appropriate' to share? Does that mean there is a reluctance to admit publically that mistakes have been made?

Also, please credit us with some intelligence. No one thinks that changes and the funding to resource them, can be accessed in five minutes, but there has been imho, a lacklustre and guarded response to the CJD debacle, silence from most top riders, after years of less than optimum judging and training practices and competition performances being high-lighted, and trust among the general public has almost run out. Soon you are will be losing the trust of previously supportive horse owners and pro-equestrian sports people like me, who promote dressage (at a low level) as a way of improving balance and responsiveness in horse and rider alike.

My point is, you need to bring the public with you if the support is going to survive.

Changes will need to be fundamental and across the board if they are to be effective. It's not going to happen overnight, so why not update as you go along? And why only limit this communication to BD members?

In fact, given the negative attitude of the general public towards horse sports atm, I think it's more vital than ever to find a means of communicating all of the improvements that are happening and not turn inwards.

The public aren't stupid. They smell a rat when the issue is "spun" as an isolated incident pertaining to only one person in such a tight-knit sport.

You say there are no resources, but what do you think the CJD debacle has cost the sport, not just in terms of its reputation but also in sponsorship across all levels?

IMO a ban for life for anything to do with animals, even owning a hamster.

SS involvement for her baby.

Wow. So simply raising the issue in a reasonable way on a public discussion forum, gets you labelled as a "keyboard warrior" with hidden motives.

Thanks very much! If you doubt my reasons for posting then please send me a pm and I will send you a picture of my horse! :)

Again, I don't think that this level of defensiveness serves the sport well.

I agree with you that there is a lot of unthinking and ignorant abuse going on at grass roots levels but surely we need to tackle it wherever it occurs, it's not an "either or" situation, and those at the very top of the sport set the standard for the rest.

This keyboard warrior is off to feed and hay her horses in the semi dark for the second time today. The OP asked about a very specific CDJ/ BD issue so it is legitimate to mention BD etc. In my experience the worst violence I have ever seen to horses is categorically on professional yards.

Thanks Countrycob.

Me too. Off to call in the hairy mud monsters 😀

I think the shortest day is around about now thank heavens.

Can I hand you a grip?

I wasn’t talking about you! It was a general point. Feel free to send me a picture of your horse but I wasn’t suggesting your horse was mistreated, nor would a photo tell me if it were (again not suggesting it is).

The bottom line is interaction with humans affects animals; some of that will be negative. Even the most well-meaning will sometimes cause harm. Let me give you an example. For some horses barefoot is great. For others their feet cannot take it. By getting the wrong approach for the horse, there will be some harm, even if corrected later.

That harm will be more likely, and more likely to be chronic, where the human involved (a) believes in a rigid philosophy; and (b) believes they are right. This is as true if the mental rigidity is “horses should be barefoot” as it is if the belief is “he’s just being lazy, kick him”. And keyboard warriors are not, in my experience, open to different approaches. That’s dangerous for animals (and children).

If you’d bothered to read my last, what I was saying was helping the grassroots, where there is willingness to change but maybe not knowledge, would be likely to do the most good for the largest number of horses with limited resources. Of course what we can all do is seek to educate ourselves and keep an open mind.

And I agree re professionals. But they know and still do it, so presumably don’t care?

Well I suppose that makes how regulating bodies deal with evidence of mal practice which is brought to them - not the result of their costly or impossible investigations - is dealt with. Which is the question the OP asked.

May I hand you the grip back?

I wasn’t assuming that you were accusing me of cruelty to my horse. That thought didn’t cross my head!

I thought you were accusing me of raising this issue on Mumsnet because I want to do the sport of dressage harm, while pretending to care about it. When nothing is further from the truth. I desperately want the powers that be in the sport to sort it out!

Also, I understood very well what you meant in your last paragraph but I happen to disagree!

Best practices in a sport like dressage, imho, are best instigated from the top down. Of course we need grass roots training, and good practice at every level. But we look to the stars of the sport to set a gold standard in terms of technique and top notch horse welfare.

If not, and it gets to the big compétions, and cruelty is rewarded, or stories break about poor training methods as in CDJ’s case, the credibility of the whole sport of dressage is undermined from top to bottom. What happens at the top reflects on all of us.