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Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

Questions to ask/check when viewing/buying

19 replies

postitcharlie · 28/11/2024 07:16

Hi we are searching for a mother daughter/share.

Haven’t owned in such a long time. Just after your thoughts on the best questions/things to check when buying. Ideally questions to ask before viewing and questions to ask during the viewing. I have some that are on my list, such as what are they like in traffic, to handle, open spaces etc, but wondered what else would be useful and important to know. Thank you

OP posts:
twistyizzy · 28/11/2024 08:01

Don't just ask, watch it being done.
If they say its good to load then ask to see it being loaded.
Ask to watch it being tacked up.
Good for farrier, take a small hammer + pick it's feet up and gently tap with the hammer.
If they say its good to hack then ask to see it being ridden out on roads/out of the yard.
Male sure you see the passport and read it thoroughly to check it matches the horse in front of you. Check that all vaccinations are up to date and that age matches what they say.
Basically don't believe anything any seller tells you, take an instructor/experienced friend with you (I always take the physio or osteopath with me to 2nd viewing), get a 5 stage vetting + take bloods. Don't be pressured into not doing a 2nd viewing, if they are genuine then they will be happy to do that.

HannahSmiths · 28/11/2024 11:01

If for your dd what does she want to do? If pony club or riding club then you want one that has done that. Pony club for example is a big ask of any pony. If you go to camp they will need to be used to games equipment, good in open spaces, able to jump, be good in a group with other ponies etc

lastqueenofscotlandagain · 29/11/2024 10:12

I agree with the above, don't take anyone's word for anything...
If stuff is important to you ask to see it.
Personally I don't care if something isn't great on the ground, but if you need the horse to be calm enough to be handled by a child or non horsey other half, ask to see it groomed, brought in/caught/turned out.
Need to hack alone, ask to see the owner hack alone.
Need to not blow up in open spaces, ask to see it walk/trot/canter/pull up.

Looking for something that will be sensible in new places? Ask to go to an arena hire or something (will be at your expense).

I am probably as guilty of this, but as someone who has ridden for 9284902 years and used to be a work rider as a job, my "straight forward and quiet" might not be someone more novice's idea of straightforward and quiet so really read between the lines.
If someone is selling a 1.20 showjumper described as quiet and sensible I'd expect they mean quiet for a competition horse, not quiet and sensible for someone who's had one lesson a fortnight at their local riding school.

I also am a big believer in if it's too good to be true it is. I'd not be expecting to see a 14/15hh mother daughter share, that is safe, sane and sound for less than £7k, and more likely pushing £10k
If you're finding this horse for £3k I'd be hugely suspicious

twistyizzy · 29/11/2024 10:21

@postitcharlie I also forgot the most basic rule of all: buy for the level of rider you are now, not what you want to be. Don't over estimate your ability.
Time after time I see people who over horse themselves because they want to jump 80cm when they have never done more than 50cm and it always ends in disaster. If your daughter has only even ridden 13hh ponies then don't think a 16.2hh is going to be suitable. If neither of you have ever done XC, don't buy something that is used to being out every weekend doing ODEs.

Stillplodding · 29/11/2024 14:10

I'd second everything said above.

I'd also add, if you're looking at PC ponies ask the local DC for a reference. They are normally happy to chat, and it is useful to explain to them your daughters level/experience and what she hopes to do with this horse/pony and see if the DC thinks they'd fit. If your looking at RC types then speak to local RC clubs or local competition centres to see if he/she is known locally.

The only more specific thing I would ask to see/do from experience is re hacking alone. When we got Dpony he'd been a young teens first PC pony and was as described in all ways... BUT wasn't used to hacking alone as the girls went out in groups together, or v occasionally she'd go alone with her mum as a walker. So on paper he was good to hack alone/in co, but actually his idea of alone was alone from other horses but included a foot soldier.

We were able to teach him to go 'properly' alone and he became just as good at that. But off the bat, it was new to him and he much preferred a 'busier' hack, as empty country lanes etc with no people or horses in sight were completely new to him.

HelinaHandbasket · 29/11/2024 14:12

To all these sensible questions, I’d also ask why it’s being sold, what its veterinary history is, whether it lives in/out/with mares/geldings/both. How many days a week is it used to being ridden, and how is it after a break?

Find out what tack it’s ridden in for different situations, eg does is it ridden in a different bit/noseband/martingale for jumping or hacking.

There are some good online lists of questions to ask when viewing. I found these very helpful when I bought my horse recently, and kept a little notebook with the answers in. I would have done this for each horse I saw, but in the end I did what you’re not meant to do and bought the first horse I saw.

If it doesn’t sound too stalker-ish, it’s also worth trying to find out anything you can about the seller. Check out the Dodgy Dealer groups on Facebook before even arranging a viewing.

postitcharlie · 29/11/2024 15:40

Thank you so much for all your advice. I really appreciate it. It’s such a minefield 😀

OP posts:
lastqueenofscotlandagain · 29/11/2024 15:42

Oh god yes completely agree with the buy the horse for the rider you are now. I do a bit of instructing and the amount of people who've bought something really sporty because they want to be out competing but have no real experience with a horse with that much brain or blood and end up terrified to do anything. And then a frustrated, bored horse who's behaving worse and worse...

I'd also say, take your time and make sure it's right, it costs the same to feed the wrong horse as it does the right one!

ipredictariot5 · 29/11/2024 15:59

Find out what exactly it is doing now, amount of exercise / rider/ disciplines. And exactly what turn out/stabling routine. A horse that appears a bit lazy or quiet can change a lot with increased fitness/ change of feed. Similarly one that is a bit sharper may become unmanageable. I agree with under horsing yourself, you can always ‘trade up’ in due course.
Whereas if you overhorse yourself it can be difficult to sell on and you will be terrified and it will be an expensive hobby you hate!

HannahSmiths · 29/11/2024 17:24

Don’t forget to ask for references. So ask for permission to see the vet record. Ask to speak to their instructor. If it has done anything affiliated you should be able to check its history. Similarly if it has been in a pony club or riding club there should be someone you can speak to and find out how it has behaved.

OnarealhorseIride · 01/12/2024 18:27

You can get a lot of info from watching a film and seeing for example what bit is it? If you want something quiet, then hesitate if it is being ridden in a kimblewick etc.
always ask to see the seller ride first.
we bought from the breeder and she gave her vet permission to discuss his vet history which was helpful but you never know if you are missing something that involved a different vet. Ask about their current training program. Think about what will matter to you eg hacking alone, easy shoe etc?
i always told my daughter better to need to push on instead of pulling up especially with a first horse. Buy for where you are now.
you also get a feeling for if the seller just wants to sell to whoever or do they want to check you out so the horse goes to the appropriate home.

XelaM · 02/12/2024 11:18

It's a shame as we were selling my daughter's absolutely lovely pony that's perfect for a mother/daughter share or as a PC or starter BS pony, but we just agreed to give her on full loan to a little girl at our yard and she would be heartbroken if we sold her from under her

maxelly · 02/12/2024 11:32

How's it going OP, been on any/many viewings yet? I do agree with what others have said about seeing with your own eyes wherever possible although it does seem with the pace of the market as it is these days that there's less opportunity for extended viewings and testing than there was, about 10 years ago if it was a decently priced horse you used to be able to ask sellers to box up to open space hacking or a show or arena hire or whatever so you could test the horse in whatever environment was important to you, whereas now it seems the etiquette is to make your mind up after 1 or at most 2 viewings at home and then move to vetting pretty quickly. Videos are good especially of the pony at shows and PC and clinics etc (and if it's the beloved family pony of the advert most people will have thousands of pics and vids easily available on their phone so I'd be suspicious of sellers who say they don't have any). I'd try and cajole the seller into sending you more of a representative sample of the pony in its everyday work and/or showing things going mildly wrong rather than just the 'showreel' of the best bits as IMO you learn the most about a horse, particularly a child's pony, from what it does when there's minor problems than just the edited highlights!

In terms of questions others have had good ideas, one little trick I always used to use was to ask more open and less yes/no questions. So for example, don't ask 'is s/he spooky?' - the answer will usually be 'no!' but there are very very few horses that never spook ever - so I would always ask 'what does s/he do when spooked?' and hope to hear something along the lines of 'she's pretty bombproof but if something startles her she'll plant/hop sideways/snort and take a good look' - so much more informative than a yes/no answer. Other examples would be 'when jumping what would make her refuse', 'what does she need to stand for the farrier/vet/clipper', 'how many days off has she had for ailments in the last year' etc etc.

backinthebox · 02/12/2024 13:49

Some excellent advice being given here.

First of all - take a responsible adult with you! I know this sounds daft, but I always take someone with me when I go to a viewing. Most recent horse I was looking for was a horse to compete at a very specific level in a certain discipline, I’m very competent, but I cannot see what I look like on the horse when I’m on the horse - you need a second pair of eyes with a level head. Someone who will help you walk away if the horse is not right, not egg you on to buy something inappropriate.

Your viewing begins as soon as you arrive - you should be able to see the horse being caught, brought in from the field, hooves picked out, groomed, tacked up, etc. all normal behaviour for a horse, but a canny seller can hide an issue by not letting you see that. Once you’ve watched the seller do all of the above (single most important note - always watch the seller do EVERYTHING first, if there is something they don’t want to do, ask why!) Again, watch the seller rider it, ask to see it do anything you want it to be able to do (eg jump, hack, school certain movements etc) before you jump on. Don’t trust a horse to be safe because the seller says it’s safe as houses, you can jump straight on yourself! I know plenty of people who’ve been injured that way. Try the horse yourself in any situations you would want it to be good in - school, hack, in company, alone. Ask to see it load, with clippers, etc if these are things you need to be able to do.

Once you’ve seen the horse doing all the things you want it to, ask to see the passport. Go over this with a fine tooth comb! Check all the markings to see if they match. Weirdly, you can be less picky about the colour - I know grey horses that started out bay, black horses that say liver chestnut in their passport, one of mine says it is roan when in fact the horse is definitely spotted! They all have their whorls, facial markings, hoof colours and such things correct though. I went to view a horse once and the markings were definitely different, even though the pony was black and the passport said it was black. Was not the same pony.

Check ALL the pages of a passport. If it’s been reissued, ask why. If the horse had a name change, again why and what was it called before. Check the date the passport was issued, check the age of the horse and check that the horse actually looks somewhere in that broad category. I went to see a pony that was advertised as 11, but had grey hairs around its eyes and went with a way of going which suggested ‘experienced old timer.’ It’s passport was only recently issued, the owner said the old one had been lost… 🙄

Seriously, assume the seller is there to pull wool over your eyes. Check everything. EVERYTHING! I put out a ‘wanted’ ad once for a small pony gelding. Went to see it, liked it, let my child ride it, groom it etc. put a deposit down and booked a vetting. Vet told me that ‘the gelding op had been successful and what a nice pony!’ We bought him and he was indeed one of the best we’ve ever had, but it was a surprise to find we had in fact viewed a stallion! We never considered checking his little hairy scrotum. 🤣

Ask the seller for references for the activities they say the horse has been doing. If they say it’s done Pony Club - ask which branch and call the DC or chief instructor. If they say it’s hunted, call the hunt master. If they say it’s jumped or done dressage under rules, ask to see its BS or BD record. If they say it ran as a racehorse, ask to see its race record. If it was retired from racing, why? Too slow - ok. Went nuts in company - not so good. Check it all out. Too many sellers say ‘yes, experienced hunter’ but then can’t tell you which hunt it went out with. The number of professional photographers at events these days, there is no excuse not to have a million pictures of it out doing fun rides, fancy dress, or whatever it’s previous owners say it did. If there are no photos at all, or only a couple of grainy photos of an adult riding it when it’s been advertised as a ‘much loved but sadly outgrown pony’ where are all the photos of the child on it? Any parent worth their salt will have taken or bought a gazillion pictures of their darling on the horse.

Ask the seller everything you can think of - don’t be afraid to look stupid, you are going to spend thousands of pounds on something you are going to trust with your life. The suggestions for ‘what does it do if it doesn’t like the look of something?’ type questions, rather than ‘does it spook’ are good advice. Every horse has its limits, even a saint. It’s fair game to check what those limits are. ‘What sort of fences is it more likely to take a swerve at?’ ‘Is there anything it is afraid of? How does it show that fear? A spook? A plant?’

If you like what you see, don’t commit to anything at the viewing. Go and sit in the car with your responsible grown up and ask them what they think. If they think it’s a go-er, go home first of all and have a cup of tea, think about it some more, then call the seller. If you need a second look, should be no problem with a reputable seller. If you want to book a vetting, get a 5 stage vetting with bloods. Ask the seller who their vet is, as they won’t be allowed to vet their own client’s horse. Ask if you can call their vet though, they can only say no.

Main things to avoid imo are buying unseen (what kind of insane person does that?) or not getting a vetting at all.

The only bit of advice above I’d disagree with is checking out the tack. (@OnarealhorseIride says “If you want something quiet, then hesitate if it is being ridden in a kimblewick etc.”) Sometimes there’s a reason a horse is in a particular bit of tack. Ask about the tack. Eg, you’d find my lovely quiet horses are often ridden in 3 ring gags because we do TREC and until recently you couldn’t change tack between phases, we didn’t need a strong bit for the orienteering but wanted slightly better brakes for XC phase so a 3 ring gag allowed us to move the reins up and down the rings as needed. Photos of old tiny pony of ours would have shown him hunting in a Kimblewick because I wasn’t going to send an 8yo child out hunting on a 6yo pony without something more than a snaffle. I had people upset I was selling a hunter in a Myler combination bit with a rawhide noseband. The horse needed something in its mouth (it was 18hh) but responded better to nose pressure than bit pressure (it would try and duck under the bit, the combination let the noseband work first, with the mouthpiece as a back up if he decided he needed to go somewhere in a hurry!) So many buyers had no idea what the bit was they incorrectly assumed it was strong and therefore so was the horse. Fair game to ask though - why is it wearing a flash? A grackle? A martingale? Some sellers have no idea why, it’s just what the horse came with.

Anyway, good luck. I find looking for the next unicorn one of the most stressful things out there. Remember that if you buy the wrong one for you though, as long as it is sound it will be the right horse for someone else, so don’t be too afraid, and don’t think you couldn’t possibly sell a horse that’s not working for you on - both you and the horse will be happier with a better matched partner.

postitcharlie · 04/12/2024 21:39

Thank you everyone for comments and advice. I viewed one yesterday and she’s just what we are looking for. I utilised the advice here and also did some research on social media on the seller (and also the previous seller!). I have a vetting taking place on Friday. I am going to be present. Any particular questions to ask during vetting? Previous pony we bought was much cheaper and I didn’t get him vetted so don’t know what to expect. Thank you

OP posts:
lastqueenofscotlandagain · 05/12/2024 07:17

My thing with vettings esp 5 star is to be realistic about the outcome.
If the pony in question is say, 15/16 years old I wouldn't be surprised if they are a bit sore after a flexion test, I would be and I run 2 marathons a year!

Vets don't pass or fail in the way they used to so have a sensible conversation with them about anything they flag

backinthebox · 05/12/2024 09:39

^^ What @lastqueenofscotlandagain said.

A vetting is like a purchase survey on a house. It’s designed to make sure the horse is fit for purchase right now. Not that it is free from all issues, or that the horse won’t develop issues in the future.

Age is very relevant - as has already been said, you would expect an older horse to be a bit stiffer. I don’t like the flexion tests and trotting circles on hard surfaces for them, it’s highly unlikely you’ll be seeing an older horse completely sound on these tests. But the vet does still need to check for soundness, and it is unfortunate that older horses do usually have some issues that will mean a bit more management in the long run. Both my older competition horses have had time off for injuries recently, and they are both on joint supplements which make a big difference to them. Both perfectly capable of a happy hacking job though.

As long as the vet thinks the pony will do the job you want of it (and be realistic here) you are probably fine. If the vet finds skin conditions (eg sarcoid, melanoma) you need to decide what the risk is to your continued enjoyment of the pony. We’ve got a grey who had a melanoma identified at vetting. We were fine with this - 80% of all grey horses over 15 years old have at least one, and there was no sign it was anything other than benign (in fact the seller pointed it out to the vet.) You’d be walking away from a lot of horses if you walked away from this. Sarcoids are not difficult to treat these days either, but it’s very dependent on what kind of sarcoid and where it is. I had a horse vetted last year who had 2 occult sarcoids by the eye. They just looked like small bald patches. The vet was very clear these could grow and cause problems with the eye and would be difficult to treat so close to the eye. As the horse was only 5 and I’d had trouble with another horse with surgery around the eye area, I chose to walk away from this one. But my friend, at the same time, was happy to buy a horse with a sarcoid on its torso (nowhere near the girth area.)

I also walked away from a horse I wanted for distance work because it was pigeon toed - would be fine for normal levels of work but for a top class endurance horse this was a flaw that could lead to soundness issues down the line. I use this example to try and show that what is suitable for one person is not necessarily suitable for another. The vet carrying out the vetting should have a good understanding of what you want to do with the horse and be able to advise you if the horse is suitable for the job you want it for.

Final notes - get bloods taken. I’ve never known anyone need to check the bloods, but it’s kind of a deterrent. You should also be able to have a full and frank discussion with the vet over their findings.

Horsehunter24 · 05/12/2024 11:21

We are in the same boat. Always ask the seller to ride first, we looked at one which bucked as soon as the owner asked him to canter. After buck number 3 we walked away without riding!! We had a horse vetted which failed on flexion and trotting on a small circle. The sellers vet found her 100% sound but we got deposit back. You need to be willing to walk away if something is off.

postitcharlie · 06/12/2024 16:16

Just wanted to update that vetting took place and based on the outcome I have pulled out of the sale. Pony has an ongoing health problem that will require ongoing management and will get worse over time. At the price she was for sale I have to walk away.

so if anyone knows of any 14.2-15.1(ish) mother daughter shares, please do let me know as I have real brain ache over it all!

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