In a dilemma

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I posted a few weeks back about our predicament.

We've got a 13.2 pony on loan who is a golden oldie and lovely but he is more of a happy hacker and dd wants to progress more than is fair to ask him.
An opportunity came up to share a 14.2 pony with the potential of taking her on lwvtb in a few months.

Been sharing 14.2 pony for about 3 weeks. She is good to ride in the school but I have a few concerns:-

1. She can be moody in her box and will turn her bum to you . We manage this by tying her up to groom her.
2. She can pull faces when grooming but she's got better since we've got to know her a bit more but I wouldn't say I trust her. Current owners just giver her hay to manage this.
3. She is a nightmare to worm

4.you can't clip her. Not sure if owners have tried with sedation even.

1. Her loading history is iffy. We would take her to a show to test this.
2. When riding as soon as she starts to come down on the bit she flings head up so as to evade the work. She did this quite a bit out hacking last week.

I have a sense of unease and not sure if these are things we can work through or if I should cut our losses and stick to little loan pony for now whilst we look for another one to buy.

Part of me thinks all horses have quirks you just often don't know them but I think for me her temperament is the biggest issue.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks

I have a moody mare who has a similar attitude in the stable to the one you are describing. She’ll turn her bum to you, get defensive over food, and pull faces when grooming. I love her to bits, she has a strong personality and it’s taken me a while to get to grips with it. But she definitely takes some managing! On her own terms, she is also paradoxically the cuddliest horse on the yard, and wants to be with you much more than the other horses, which is actually a huge advantage in my sport. I bought her as a horse to compete with at an extremely high level (I have my eye set on a World Championship medal with her in my discipline) so I bought her for performance really.

When choosing a pony for a child, I would say that there are very few children out there who would be fully able to read all the cues a horse with ‘a lot of personality’ might give. This puts them in a potentially dangerous situation unless they have an adult with them all the time. Children want to love and bond with a pony, and even competitive children generally have a ‘me and you against the world’ ideal in their heads about their relationships with their horses. The children I know of who are competing and succeeding on ponies with tricky personalities are usually in the very fortunate position of having some adult to look after the horses and the child is just plonked on them to ride it in the show ring/jumping class/etc.

If you are struggling with a sense of unease already, and your child is not coping with the pony’s behaviour (which could likely be improved with knowledge and experience your child does not have yet) then I would be staying with the safe pony until something suitable comes up. You’ll probably find a good pony to loan in the coming months, as children realise they cannot study for exams or go to uni and still keep their pony going. I would be inclined to advertise for exactly what you are looking for, and add in exactly what you are prepared to give in return. Someone out there will have a good match for you.

Thank you backinthebox you've hit the nail on the head.

Whilst I might be able to manage the situation/temperament the pony is ultimately for my daughter. She 11 now but a 14.2 should last her a good few years and whilst I'm always present at the moment I forsee when she gets to 13/14 she'll probably want to be at the stables without me.

If it’s any consolation, my daughter (who competes in the same discipline I do) had to return to her old steady safe pony this summer as her competition horse had an injury which meant he could not go to the top competitions. She competed her safe little 13.3hh pony up against seniors in the British Championships, and against a class full of 16hh+ sport horses at the Young Rider World Championships. She did not achieve the placings she would have been likely to have got on her horse, but her little pony did her proud and held his own. Pony is now having a more relaxing autumn taking my younger child draghunting and teaching him how to jump hedges. Don’t write off the safe ponies! You can have a lot of fun on them, even without winning.

I know it's just our loan pony is circa 25-28 and finds it seriously hard going in the school so we're redefining him as the very happy hacker. He also does a weird trip thing with one of his front legs so I feel as though we need to take it easy and not really jump.

Dd hasn't been riding that long and is just starting to jump so we need something she can progress on.

Ahhhhh the stress. Why did I do this to myself 😂.

Partly wondering if we keep loan pony for hacking and loving and just go to a riding school as well for a bit to keep her progressing.

She sounds like there is some investigation needed, flinging heads, not enjoying being groomed etc to me point to a pain related issue.
I think so many mares get fobbed off as being moody when they are ulcery/need their teeth doing/have KS etc

To be honest the share pony sounds like she’s got quite a few issues going on and is telling you quite clearly she’s not happy. At your daughter’s age riding should be fun and she should be able to make a fuss of her pony without having to have you around to manage things safely. We have five horses at home and all of them are perfectly behaved on the ground including the ultra hot competition mare and the ex-racer about to become an eventer. Your little loan pony also sounds like he’s heading for retirement if he’s tripping and struggling in the school - I’d be very reluctant to put a child on him as I don’t think it would be fair for either child or pony. In your shoes I’d be looking out for another more suitable loan.

Sounds like a pain issue to me too.

Yep. Pain issues

The 14:2 has far too many issues for a novice child to really enjoy her and it sounds like the older one should be retired , not redefined as a happy hacker . I’d start afresh looking for something more suitable whilst having lessons at a good riding school .

I know it's just our loan pony is circa 25-28 and finds it seriously hard going in the school so we're redefining him as the very happy hacker.

Quite right. Also best to send your 90 yr old granny up the inside of the chimney as she might now find the outside ladders hard going. 😡

Just to be clear loan pony loves going out hacking and has a very happy face when doing so, hence the 'very happy hacker' Just nice gentle walks and a little bit of trotting. I'm always walk along side so they're not tearing around the countryside.

I had the vet up about his trip thing and he couldn't find a definitive cause other than maybe the surface in the school is a bit uneven. I asked about retirement and he felt that it is good to keep him ticking over all the time he is happy.

I can see he isn't happy in the school which is why we aren't doing that any more.

25-28 and tripping also sounds to me like a bit of a situation. Sorry. 😞 This pony needs to be retired. He might be happy to go out for the odd hack, and I fully agree keeping horses ticking over does keep them feeling well, but there is a limit to that. I have 2 retired under the age of 20. Ponies don’t go on forever, no matter what people say.

As for those saying grumpy mare is in pain. She might be, she might not be. My mare is moody, but she is not in pain. She’s young, fit, assessed regularly by vet, farrier, dentist, saddler and physio, fed for the work she does, not left without forage. She is unlikely to have ulcers, her teeth and feet are in good condition, her back is good too. She has had an upbringing though (before me) as the youngest horse in a large field full of horses all left, we think, to fight among themselves for access to food. Her default response now is to fight for her food, no one is coming near it! I’ve had her since January, and we are gaining trust, and I’m pretty sure we will get there. In all other areas she would walk over hot coals for me (and she has proved her competition worth this summer beyond all expectations, as her personality is one which wants to please and she learns quickly.) But gosh she can be grumpy when she wants to be!

However, here is the thing with a child’s loan pony. A child does not have the expertise or patience to recognise or gently unpick any possible problems, and nor should they have to. The owner shouldn’t be loaning out such a pony to a novice. If it’s an easy fix, or pain related, the owner should have these things ironed out before finding a loaner.

There are plenty of nice ponies out there. Only persevere with one on loan, especially for a child, if the issue is minor and can be quickly solved by the owner.

Agree with others, sounds like it could be pain (agree that not all moodiness is pain, it can be anxiety/stress too but if you combine all this pony's issues they do seem to add up). I would certainly get her very thoroughly vetted if you are thinking of buying but probably best to walk away at this stage. Not being able to clip is a near dealbreaker for me in itself as it makes winter so much harder, plus like others have said the issues on the ground are not great in a kids pony.

I would add also that maybe I'm a huge cynic but I'm always really suspicious of people that agree to LWVTB for their animals (unless it's to a friend or at least a friend of a friend or acquaintance) - 14.2 ponies suitable for a child or novice adult are really, really valuable if they are sound in every way and genuinely safe/easy and should sell easily if you need to rehome for whatever reason, as so I just don't see why you'd take the chance either on financial or welfare grounds of letting a stranger try them out for a period of time, particularly if that involves moving the pony to a new yard potentially stressing and upsetting them, only to have them maybe sent back after a month possibly in worse physical and mental/training condition than you sent them (not saying this is you OP, sounds like you're really doing your best, but does the owner know this?).

I know dealers sometimes offer a trial period as an incentive and I guess maybe it works with them but the only times I have ever come across it with private sellers (in my own experience only) there has always, always been some significant problem with the horse, usually a veterinary issue that would become apparent on vetting, and the owner has clearly hoped the buyer/loaner (or their child!) will get attached after having them for a month and be prepared emotionally blackmailed to overlook whatever it is, out of pity or not wanting to let the owner down after they've "done them a huge favour by allowing the LWVTB" or whatever. I'd trust your instincts on this one OP and if you think there's something there you're not being told about, you're probably right?

I'd want all potential pain avenues looked in to before lwvtb personally

How experienced is your 11 year old daughter? I say that because at 11 i was breaking in ponies left right and centre and was VERY good at reading moods, feeling any change underneath me when sat on them etc. being young doesn't mean she can't/won't read queues of a moody horse safely.

if you can rule pain out, then loading, worming and clipping are all issues you can use to barter and are fixable with time and effort

I think the old pony is probably ready for a quiet retirement, probably would enjoy being a lead rein pony with just a couple of walks out a week.

Mares can be difficult. Mine was. If she likes your daughter she will probably be really good and kind to her although still be a bit difficult, if she doesn’t she’ll be more than awkward. My last mare and I had an understanding, certain things would happen how she wanted (bucket as soon as she got in the stable not rug changing, 10 mins of grooming max) and others how I wanted ( bing caught or no feed, and I got to choose where we went hacking, she could choose the speed). I still miss her.

If you want straightforward look for another gelding

The 14.2 pony is on the same yard as our 13.2 pony and we will continue to keep it there.

The owner has another horse at the yard so is there too.

My daughter is not particularly experienced and is on the cautious side so not a gung ho confident jump on anything child.

I think I'm leaning on the side of looking for another pony. Why take on one with issues but then I worry we'll potentially buy something with issues (we just won't know them) as it's such a minefield.

It is a complete minefield, but I do think the 14.2 sounds like there is something niggling- it might be nothing, but equally it could escalate, and then you've got all sorts of problems. You may end up with something else with unknown issues, but not every pony out there has issues- so why buy something with known issues?

14.2 is still within the size range where families will sell a good one that's been outgrown (particularly if it looks like a long term home), or you could look at loaning another been there, done that pony who is just a bit bigger and a little bit younger? It sounds like your daughter is still very much learning and progressing, so even though a 14.2 may last her size wise for years, the pony she needs now may be quite different to what she wants in a year or two!