Livery vs riding school

[mousepen]

Hi, I've got my first horse this year still in need of lots of lessons so the riding school I'm at has livery so it was an obvious choice to take her there. I'm thinking now if I should move to a livery yard,
the cons where I am are, very limited hacking, only one school, with so many people trying to use it.

Pro. The ppl are so nice and it's very close to home, my instructor is fab

The pros of a livery hard I've found. Access to really good and varied hacking. Lots more facilities on site 3x school and one is indoor! Seems really chilled and friendly from the one visit I've had.

Con is it's 15 mins away which I know isn't a lot but 10 more than where I am. Won't be as fully supported I don't think as I am now but that might prove to be a good thing in the long run.
What would you do.
Nervous to move but would like the more facilities.

Leave on good terms (which may be dependent on whether you have a bat-shit-crazy yard owner, some will take personal offense at you giving your notice, as if you've just told them they're a no-good piece of shit and can fuck off, when all you said is I'm leaving next month because I'd like to be at the same yard as my friend or whatever reason you're leaving) and you can always come back to the riding school, although there could be a waiting list and you won't necessarily end up with the same standard field/stable for your horse because it'll be whatever is available at the time.
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But have you factored in the cost of lessons if you still want/need them? Will your RS instructor teach you freelance or will you need to hire transport to return to the RS for lessons on your own horse, or use a RS horse instead if your horse doesn't travel/you can't afford transport?
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What type of livery are you on now? Will you get the same type of livery at the new yard or is that something else you/your horse will have to adjust to (and may not work out)?
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Lastly, what do you want most out of horse ownership. The lifestyle, to own one primarily as a pet viewed as part of your family for the experience/enjoyment and riding is the cherry on the cake, or is it mainly about the riding experiences and mainly a hobby not a lifestyle for you?
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If it's the former and both you/horse are happy where you are I'd think twice about giving it up because many yards are toxic in some way or another. They all seem chilled on the surface, scratch a little deeper and you soon find the flaws. The horse world can be bitchy, people don't know you or who you are/know, so they're not going to say anything other than positives on the whole and many a bat-shit-crazy yard owner with zero people skills comes across as friendly and laid back, until you want to do something different from what they want. It can be hard to accept some yard owner's nonsense if it impacts your horses health or your finances/convenience and makes no logical sense even.
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If it's mainly about the riding experiences then it's too expensive a hobby to stay somewhere where you're frustrated by the riding opportunities so try it and move on/come back if it doesn't work out.
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I'll never understand people who think a yard half hour drive away, or an hour away but right round the corner from work, is "too far". Good yards aren't easy to find and they don't usually end up being on your doorstep. So IMO the 5min Vs 15min doesn't even come into it.

You say not as supported, what livery package would it be (DIY/part/full) and how experienced are you?
If it’s all very new to you it’s DIY I really wouldn’t. I think a lot of low level neglect happens when people just don’t know how to deal with certain things. If you still need assistance learning the stable management things you can’t rely on liveries and the YM to be on hand to help.

If it’s DIY you will have to go twice a day, so that’s an hour travelling, also if it’s DIY how easy is it to arrange help when you go away or can’t make it in an emergency?

Other things to ask for me are turnout? I wouldn’t go anywhere with no winter turnout for example
If the yard has good facilities can you always use them? We have two schools but our good one is lessons only at the weekend with an instructor that the yard manager arranges to come in.

I also echo the above, yards can be nightmares and “friendly” can often be cliquey, especially at bigger yards, I love my yard where everyone is polite to each other but everyone minds their own business, and there is a lot to be said for being happy where you are.

It's full livery I'm on now, and that's what I would be having if I moved, sorry shud of said that, and also the livery has its own instructors on site and freelance is welcome no extra charge. So it does seem id be changing for more not less.
It's just the thought of changing, but the idea is staying with no hacking is also worrying me. I brought a box so at least I box her up and go out, but much much rather not have to just to hack regularly.

I ride 3/4 times a week when kids at school and then one lunge/ridden by staff a week atm and seems to be able to get that aswell,

What you need to consider is that you may move to the new yard and find -
They promised winter turnout but it rarely happens. In reality this means exercising your horse daily. Even if it's pissing rain, even if you're ill, even if you had to work late and are knackered, even if you'd planned to go out and will now have to cancel because you've arrived at the yard to find the horses have been kept in yet again. You will see people who don't exercise or turn out daily and get away with it. Lucky them. But don't be surprised if your horse gets behaviour issues in hand or under saddle, keeps becoming unwell or seems prone to injuries. Plenty of others on the yard won't be getting away with it and their horses will be suffering. It's very very common.
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Full livery isn't just one thing. It means different things to different people. On some yards it means one bale of bedding regardless of how many the horse actually needs meaning the bed is always thin and dirty, sometimes for financial reasons the hay bale is used up no matter what even if the last bits are mouldy, or you find that horses are only mucked out once a day even if the fields are closed and they've been kept in so they're standing/laying in their own filth all night which means it's all over the horse/their rugs, it could mean one feed for all regardless of whether or not it's too much/too little/totally unsuitable, restricting hay and fattening up with sugar beet instead isn't uncommon because it sometimes works out cheaper, you can forget about hay being soaked if your horse has a dust allergy and some barns/yards/arenas are more dusty than others. Just because you're happy with your current full livery don't assume you'll be happy on full livery elsewhere.
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Lots of facilities are great but how good are they? Arenas too deep/small/prone to flooding/sand so old it's broken down into fine dust. What's the system, can you book a slot for sole use? How often and how far in advance? It's common on some yards for the same person to block out weeks and weeks in advance a prime time spot, it only needs a few of these before you find you can't get into the arenas after work ever. Are you willing to hack in the dark using a headtorch and lights/hi viz if there's no turnout and you can't get in the arena or to ride at the crack of dawn before work?
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How many fields and what size Vs how many horses? What's in the fields? Grass or scrub weeds including sometimes ragwort, so there's nothing to eat horses always bickering, covered in bite marks or kick marks and the resulting risk of injury. What is the condition of the fences? Who does land management and what does this consists of? All Vs what you've got now.
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I'm not saying don't go. But don't take for granted what you already have. Know that you're taking a huge risk and it might not work out. Only you can decide if the risk is worth it. Personally if I had a yard 5min from home where me and horse were happy and thriving, plus could afford a box to get out and about, it's a no brainer I'd stay put and suck up the downsides, because they sound like minor irritations that need a bit of planning occasionally to get round. For a start 10min in a car is an hour's hack, get your horse fit enough and you can ride their routes anyway in the long days of summer or it's just a short horsebox journey. You could move and love it or you could move and hate it and find the wait to come back a long one if yours happens to be one of the best yards in the area, sometimes people rarely leave the good yards and when they do friends of those already there often get first dibs. Only you can decide if the risk is worth it. Good luck whatever you decide.

If you are on full livery and moving to full livery then I can’t see how much more support you need aside from lessons which you say you could get at the new place . However all you have mentioned is facilities for you - hacking / more schools what are the facilities like for the horse - how much time do they get turned out / what did the beds look like etc . Turnout( winter and summer ) is the singularly most important thing to be factoring in when looking at yards .

What a tricky one; I moved our horse from a riding school to a livery and still found it a tricky decision but ours was more obvious and necessary a move as the riding school was sadly just too far from our house.
How happy does your horse seem? Ours enjoys herd turnout which has currently but we were lucky both options we had are really fantastic. It sounds like you are hopefully looking at two good options too!

i found there was an abundance of help with everything at the riding school and strong united community whilst now it's slightly harder but still friendly. I think in your circumstances I would be very torn but it sounds like you'll get more varied riding with a move as it's tiring taking a box out for every hack . I wonder if they're the same price for full livery ? (Mine were).
I was very open about the difficulty I felt trying a move and the riding school were so thoughtful and understanding and offered to keep the stable door open if we had any problems! Which did really help. I wish you luck as know it's not easy to work out

Thanks for your thoughts, new place has much more field space and is a herd turnout doesn't change in winter, where current place will change to 2hours daily turn out and she's on her own,
Money wise all works out the same.

Hi op. That sounds like it would also be a better option for your horse. Herd turnout all year helps them be ‘a horse’ properly, they can choose their friends and get out in winter. I would visit a few more times, look from a more critical viewpoint; ask yourself and others questions like you’re a journalist, look for any issues. Then you’ll feel more confident about the choice you make.

Lots of good advice here, I would add maybe consider timing, if you are going into your first winter with horses maybe stay in your supported place getting lessons and then move in spring when the days are getting longer and you have had the time to gain more experience? Just a thought

I'd choose herd turnout over individual any day of the week. That would seal it for me. The fact that the facilities for you are better is just a nice bonus.

I’d move if turnout was limited to 2 hours .

No way would I be happy with two hours turnout. Neither would my horse. I kept her at a livery yard once that promised daily turnout. This didn’t happen and she was turned out maybe for a few hours every few days. She became unrideable within weeks. I lasted 5 weeks there and moved to DIY 24/7 turnout.

Shes now in full livery again. They were turned out from 3pm overnight and coming in at 9.00am. She coped with this and they are turning that around this weekend. So she’ll go out during the day. I’m hoping she’ll cope with this. She is however being ridden a lot more.

Yes I do love the idea of herd turn out , and the space there is a lot more! I think I agree with who posted about get thru the winter and then move in the spring.

@mousepen but 2 hour turnout and getting exercised 4/5 times per week is simply not good enough for any horse .

I questioned more today and winter turnout is 8-2 so I got that b it completely wrong. But still the thought of staying there feels so restrictive. Thanks for your thoughts x

If you do choose to stay do drop in at odd times even if you are not riding to see whether she is being put out for those hours . I’ve owned horses for 40+ years and on full livery for 30+ years and have been at a fair few yards and quite honestly been told tales at most of them .

We were on a yard where winter turnout was supposedly 8-3 - we didn’t think that was ideal but the yard ticked lots of other boxes so we thought we could suck it up. It transpired that 8-3 only happened when conditions were absolutely perfect - for the first four days she didn’t go out at all and then on day 5 she cut herself as they put her on the walker and she panicked and tried to get off. We left that weekend and luckily found a fabulous place where turnout did happen throughout the winter and it was 24/7 in summer. Definitely check and check again.

I would go with whichever gives the best ‘horse life’. For our horse this is max turn out in a group.

@Pleasedontdothat that is more or less what happened with us and the issue was one of mine was retired and the other only in very light work so they need to be out . At another place we called in in the afternoon and there was a feed bucket in our Irish draught x stable with an absolutely tiny amount of food in it and we thought maybe it was remnants of breakfast and it turned out it was his entire dinner . Good full livery yards are very hard to find and it’s definitely harder if you’ve previously done it all yourself , which we had , as nobody does it like you do or in our case to the standard .

I would do BHS course in horse care, it'll equip you to better know about the care and management of your horse in the new location. Usually courses are offered this time of year as you don't need good weather/the actual horse www.bhsq.co.uk/our-qualifications/the-british-horse-society-assessments/bhsq-level-1-certificate-in-bhs-horse-knowledge-and-care/

@Ariela that is and excellent recommendation and where I learnt how to look after horses decades ago